lumabean

Prayers for the children/families of Newtown, Connecticut

46 posts in this topic

Yes, lots of stuff going around since it's still being investigated. I haven't caught up the latest on it yet, it was mostly speculation by newspeople with bits of info. (DH and I were out after work/babysitting.) I saw it on the news in the afternoon while changing channels, but didn't watch watch while the grandson was up. I just sat & cried for them, and praying, of course.

 

Already new "gun controls" are being called for. One guy pointed out on the radio that China had a guy who stabbed 22 children today with a knife. If they're crazy, a knife will do. Do we ban all knives?

 

We used to keep crazy people in hospitals where they took their meds, bathed regularly, slept in clean beds, wore clean clothes, and were fed meals regularly. Now our "mentally ill" are FREE to do as they please because the ACLU "freed" them in the 70's because they had RIGHTS. It is extremely difficult to get a mentally ill relative committed unless they do certain acts.

 

Where is the call to reopen the mental hospitals? We would no longer have a homeless problem if they would.

 

Exactly!!!!! We need good, decent mental hospitals. There truly are those who need to be sheltered and cared for, not drugged up and forced to cope with an environment that they simply are not equipped to handle all in the name of "inclusion" and "mainstreaming". Especially since the society we live in now is even more frightening than it was in the 70's.

 

A person with mental illness subjected to daily onslaught of violence on television, movies, and video games in a culture that no longer teaches self control or moral boundarie is a recipe for disaster, because that person cannot protect themselves from the effects of those myriad influences IMHO.

 

The mentally ill deserve the dignity of a safe, sheltered environment. As a society, we have abrogated our responsibility to care for the most fragile persons.

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I believe the father and the mother lived in separate houses, different cities, so I'm guessing they were divorced.

 

Yes, Cricket - you got my point exactly.

 

I have an aunt who is diagnosed schizophrenic, and we had to allow her to live on the streets *by her choice* after numerous, life-long attempts to help her. She finally "allowed" herself to be brought back once more after getting into a problem where she was locked up in California and only a legal relative could get her out. She used to go from doctor to get numerous prescription drugs, and used whatever she wanted in any combination. She got to know the *system* so well that she knew exactly what to do or not to do so they HAD to release her, by law.

 

The family could not protect her or provide a safe haven for her. So now she's back, and already her control games are starting. :buttercup:

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Seriously? . . . .Are you implying that everyone with autism needs to be locked up in a mental hospital? That is one seriously screwed up statement. I

 

 

Absolutely! If we'd just lock up everyone with Autism - or get rid of them them completely - this tragedy could have been avoided. You need to put your personal feelings aside. This is a CRISIS and WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING. There is no time for rational thought we must DO SOMETHING NOW (because it is a CRISIS). Those Autistic people are dangerous and must be stopped. It's for the children.

Edited by Gunplumber

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PLEASE - this is SATIRE - He's reacting to the automatic guns-are-evil reaction by people who want our country unarmed and defenseless. :sigh:

 

The thing is, nothing keeps guns out of the hands of the criminals.

 

 

Seriously? . . . .Are you implying that everyone with autism needs to be locked up in a mental hospital? That is one seriously screwed up statement. I

 

 

Absolutely! If we'd just lock up everyone with Autism - or get rid of them them completely - this tragedy could have been avoided. You need to put your personal feelings aside. This is a CRISIS and WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING. There is no time for rational thought we must DO SOMETHING NOW (because it is a CRISIS). Those Autistic people are dangerous and must be stopped. It's for the children.

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PLEASE - this is SATIRE

 

I don't know what is more disturbing.

 

A. That you believe some members here need to be alerted to sarcasm/satire.

or

B. That you may be right.

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Any references to Aspergers/Autism I heard on the news regarding this shooter is that early information suggested he was autistic AND had a personality disorder/mental illness.

 

Those on the spectrum are not immune form mental illness, and it makes sense to me that concomitant disorders would make treatment even more challenging.

 

Having aspergeres/autism does not mean that they are all destined to be violently psychotic, but it does not make them exempt from it, either.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited by Cricket

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It is a tangent, but I guess it would be silly for me to ponder what it is the government is putting in our food and water and "medicine" that is causing these mental defects.

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Gunner...it might be what parents are putting (or not putting) into their children. Smoke, drugs, alcohol, candy up the yah-yah, and not teaching respect via the end of a paddle! Yes, we've got issues with our government etc., but it's still the greatest country in the world. That's why we're willing to defend it so vigorously?

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Yeah - SARCASM, not satire. *blush* It hit me while driving to the grocery store.

 

The problem, Gunplumber, is that *at this moment*, this is a sensitive issue. It's a tragedy, it involves children, it involves mental health issues which some of us must deal with every single day with loved ones, and the truth of it all is being hashed out in the main stream media. It's beginning to look like the REAL truth of it may never be known.

 

I understand a woman's heart, and I *think* I understand many of the women here. I just felt the need to make sure your words were taken as sarcasm, not as a true direction of action.

 

Above all, pray for the families of all involved. That we CAN do.

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I have sympathy for the victims and their families. I'm praying for them. I can't even imagine what they are going through...

 

That said, I haven't watched much of the news coverage. Not because it is upsetting, but because of how this tragedy is going to be used as a political tool, if it's not already. Every freedom-grabbing, crap on the Constitution, attempt to restrict our rights and disarm us type of bill will be for "the safety of the children". Gunplumber is absolutely right.

 

The mention that the bad guy might be an Aspie or have any form of autism? More restrictions on who can legally purchase guns. In the past, I've heard of antis wanting to require everyone to have a "mental health eval" before being able to purchase. This is a scary road to go down.

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The DSM V is now out, in which just about every human emotion is categorized as a disorder - except Asbergers has now been removed . .. . .

 

 

So if you don't trust the government, or question "authority", or stockpile food ("hoarding is now differentiated from OCD as a separate "disorder") - then you have a mental disorder. Binge eating - mental disorder. But if you have a mental disorder like Asbergers, then you don't anymore. I'm not opposed to this, as anything now can be called "pre-autistic" and it is a billion dollar industry. Jut like anyone who has ever had a bad experience (or knows anyone who had a bad experience - vicarious PTSD) can now have every emotion as "PTSD". Being a drunk is still a disease - the only one I know of you have to go to the market to buy.

Edited by Gunplumber

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In the past, I've heard of antis wanting to require everyone to have a "mental health eval" before being able to purchase. This is a scary road to go down.

 

Yesterday I read that some people were already citing the tragedy as a 'we need stronger gun restrictions" and then just a few minutes ago I read on Yahoo an article in which one of the mom's neighbors was quoted as saying he wanted to know why the mom had guns. Oh, and the article cited she homeschooled too. Owning guns and homeschooling aren't the issues (imo) but that seems to be the media's take on it.

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The DSM V is now out, in which just about every human emotion is categorized as a disorder - except Asbergers has now been removed . .. . .

 

 

So if you don't trust the government, or question "authority", or stockpile food ("hoarding is now differentiated from OCD as a separate "disorder") - then you have a mental disorder. Binge eating - mental disorder. But if you have a mental disorder like Asbergers, then you don't anymore. I'm not opposed to this, as anything now can be called "pre-autistic" and it is a billion dollar industry. Jut like anyone who has ever had a bad experience (or knows anyone who had a bad experience - vicarious PTSD) can now have every emotion as "PTSD". Being a drunk is still a disease - the only one I know of you have to go to the market to buy.

 

I found this TED talk to be very interesting in pointing out how ANYTHING can be a sign of a psychopath. It makes you think...

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One of the mom's relatives, who lives near Chicago, said in an interview that Nancy (the mom) owned the guns; was an avid prepper; and felt the need to do so because of the direction this country is going.

 

I'm wondering if she was someone that was a member here...

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Holy Jesus, please let me not throw my computer out the window because of the anger I am feeling right now.

 

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE!!!!!!!! NO, Asperger's is NOT a MENTAL ILLNESS, it is a DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDER. Get your facts straight before you spout off what you THINK you know.

 

YES, I do take this VERY personally because my son was diagnosed with Asperger's in October. If you want verification that autism is not a mental illness, I strongly recommend that you speak to someone who has an advanced degree in neuropyschology before you start quoting what you've read on the internet or what you THINK you know.

 

I literally had to take a week off from this website because of how upset I was by the statements being made. Then I came back to this. Wow. I never thought that the people on this website could be so incredibly ignorant and cruel. Unbelievable. And you can remove my post and ignore the fact that I am calling those of you who are calling Asperger's a mental illness out on the carpet for it, but you'll be doing the entire population of this website a huge disservice.

 

I have GRIEVED for the children and adults who were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary, but I have equally grieved for my son and others in the autism community as I have seen some of the most ignorant, nasty, disgusting things said about them as a result of what happened. And the saddest thing is, some of them were said here.

 

I never thought that I would feel it necessary to leave this community, but the time has come. I refuse to be in league with people who would malign people in the way I've seen people with autism maligned here. It's repulsive.

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Let not a few rule over the most...personally, I believe we each have a "dumb zone" and often just don't know where it is until we step in it...:-(

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Clip ain't the right term for that thing that holds the bullets. It's a "magazine". But everyone knows what is meant. And actually, the bullet is only the part the comes out, the magazine holds the entire cartridge which contains case, powder, primer, and bullet. I don't threaten to up and leave and stomp my foot and hold my breath till my face turns blue every time someone gets the terminology wrong and calls a magazine a clip or a cartridge a bullet.

 

Bottom line is, there's something wrong in the head - whether it is structural damage as the teratogen/carcinogen evidence suggests, electrochemical, enzyme based or simply a lack of something as the genetic evidence suggest, the person with AS is not "normal". 'Else we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

The adult male (not a child) murdered his mom and a bunch of kids and he is claimed to have been diagnosed with AS. One of the major characteristics of the AS spectrum is a lack of empathy and social reciprocity. These are characteristics one would expect in a person committing mass murder. So it is reasonable for intelligent and rational adults to associate one with the other.

 

So you can CHOOSE to get all dramatic and drama-queen like, or maybe you can see a great teachable moment to educate people on the difference between AS and ASD and what the effects are on social interaction. Seems like you are being handed a silver platter of opportunity here to share your knowledge. Guess I just don't see the point of stormin' off and slamming the door.

Edited by Gunplumber

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Turtlemama, I hear your pain, and I appreciate that you are lashing out in defense of your child, for fear that he and others like him will be painted with the same brush as a mass murderer. This is a safe place for you, and no one here thinks that way. If anything, it makes me and many others here make a point of covering you and your boy in prayer.

 

I don't think that acknowledging that the killer was reported to have Asperger's Syndrome and exploring how that condition was one of many factors that led to this horrific tragedy makes anyone here cruel or ignorant. Nothing will change the fact that people with mental and/or developmental disorders are not immune from violent behavior, and have limitations that may make it more difficult for them to behave appropriately for those that develop mental illness on top of a developmental disorder.

 

This is the fact sheet on Asperger's from the NIH web ste:

 

http://www.ninds.nih...il_asperger.htm

 

Snippet, emphasis added:

 

Asperger syndrome (AS) is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD), one of a distinct group of complex neurodevelopment disorders characterized by social impairment, communication difficulties, and restrictive, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behavior. Other ASDs include autistic disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (usually referred to as PDD-NOS). ASDs are considered neurodevelopmental disorders and are present from infancy or early childhood. Although early diagnosis using standardized screening by age 2 is the goal, many with ASD are not detected until later because of limited social demands and support from parents and caregivers in early life.

 

The severity of communication and behavioral deficits, and the degree of disability, is variable in those affected by ASD. Some individuals with ASD are severely disabled and require very substantial support for basic activities of daily living. Asperger syndrome is considered by many to be the mildest form of ASD and is synonymous with the most highly functioning individuals with ASD.

 

Two core features of autism are: a) social and communication deficits and fixated interests and repetitive behaviors. The social communication deficits in highly functioning persons with Asperger syndrome include lack of the normal back and forth conversation; lack of typical eye contact, body language, and facial expression; and trouble maintaining relationships. Fixated interests and repetitive behaviors include repetitive use of objects or phrases, stereotyped movements, and excessive attachment to routines, objects, or interests. Persons with ASD may also respond to sensory aspects of their environment with unusual indifference or excessive interest.

 

The prevalence of AS is not well established. It is often not recognized before age 5 or 6 because language development is normal. Although ASD varies significantly in character and severity, it occurs in all ethnic and socioeconomic groups and affects every age group. Experts estimate that as many as 1 in 88 children age 8 will have an autism spectrum disorder1 No studies have yet been conducted to determine the incidence of Asperger syndrome in adult populations, but studies of children with the disorder suggest that their problems with socialization and communication continue into adulthood. Some of these children develop additional psychiatric symptoms and disorders in adolescence and adulthood. Males are four times more likely than girls to have ASD.

 

Studies of children with Asperger syndrome suggest that their problems with socialization and communication continue into adulthood. Some of these children develop additional psychiatric symptoms and disorders in adolescence and adulthood.

Edited by Cricket

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