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Can we please review what we *can't* can?


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Yes, ChristyK, I have made ghee, stored it in canning jars at room temperature, and ate it months later. My family and I suffered no ill effects.

 

However, I am not endorsing this as a safe practice. As with all canning and storage procedures, proper precautions and guidelines as set forth by experts, namely, The National Center for Home Food Preservation, should be adhered to. smile

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Here at MrsS, we do not advocate home canning of any dairy product, regardless of what it is. There are too many risks involved, and since we take the position of teaching people how to can safely and responsibility, we tend to be fairly strict on what we advocate and don't.

 

Many people do alot of things...some are ok, some are not ok. Each person is responsibile for their decisions but there are valid and proven concerns with canning things like butter, and other things that have been addressed earlier in this thread.

 

This is my public service announcement for the day.

 

darlene

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just found the forum; first post. Sorry to join to ask a question, but here it is:

 

Earlier in the thread, it was said that potatoes have to be peeled because the skins harbor botulism. Is this true? Why does pressure canning not kill it?

 

I was always taught to just can small potatoes whole, peel on, and I figured the instruction to peel big potatoes was for aesthetic reasons (the peel falls off into mush). We like our mashed with peel on, so I peel for stew, but not for mashed.

 

Have I been taking a big risk all this time? Do I need to toss my mash-stash?

 

I will be much obliged for any info anybody may have. I hate the thought of wasting all those potatoes, but I certainly don't want to take any chances, even if I have always been taking the risk, unknowingly.

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You don't need to worry that much about your mashed taters. The C. Botulinum spore doesn't grow its toxin in the normal environment that much and normal cooking kills any active toxin.

 

The safety concern is in that sealed jar where the spore loves the airless environment. The thickness of the skin can harbor bacterias that might not be completely washed/brushed off and the C. Botulinum spore is especially nasty in resisting the heat of a canner and is a spore did survive in an 'eye' or just under the skin, well, no fun. The chances are rare, but it is a chance, so is is just a safety recommendation so we stay healthy.

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Yeah, I can up potatoes for future mashing, and I've always left the skins on. I just checked the Ball, and I see that it does say to peel them all and leave small ones whole. I guess I never had a reason to look up potatoes, as I had always been doing them the way I had been taught originally.

 

I don't actually have all that many cans of mashing stock right now, so I guess it won't be too bad to have to toss them. Better than anybody getting sick. I just really hate to waste food. Oh well. Thanks for letting me know.

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The reason you must peel potatoes is that no matter how much you scrub or wash, you cannot get all the botulism spores off. They may not all be killed during processing. The processing times are for PEELED potatoes. If it was possible to be 100 percent sure the botulism was destroyed with peel, the processing time would be longer. May or may not even be possible to destroy all the spores by processing. I just know this is what I am taught and what I am to pass along as safe processing, to peel all potatoes and root crops. This would also be for carrots, etc. anything that grows underground.

The spores can grow into the toxin in the absence of air, as in the sealed jar.

If you decide to use the ones with peels you have, be sure to boil at least 10 min. before you ever taste them.

 

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Okay, one more question, sorry.

 

Violet, you said earlier in thread, and I've seen you say in a couple other places about how food ph can shift as it sits in jar, and I wasn't sure what that meant in terms of food preservation. I understand different ph creates different technique or processing time requirements, but I'm not following what the shelf ph would do. I would think that ph would no longer be important (to food spoilage, anyway) once everything in a sealed jar was dead. Can you explain what the changing ph would be doing to the food?

 

Thanks.

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I am not sure I will be able to explain it . I am not trained in a whole lot of the chemistry behind foods. Wish I knew more of the scientific,technical things behind it all. I hope I am going to make sense.

For example, when you make salsa, the ph reading would be a certain number. As it sits and the veggies acidify the ph can change. It was explained to me that foods will in the beginning sort of "reject" the acid, then relax, and accept it. I was told that is why recipes like salsas need to be tested for safety. Also, why salsa is not packed raw into a jar and processed. It takes time for the acid to penetrate the cell wallls of a food, is my understanding. I am also thinking things like pickles. The cucumbers will eventually absorb the acid as well as the flavor.

This is why we should never make up our own recipes. We just have no idea what the ph level is or the density.

Also, something to think about, the recipes that are tested are tested with those EXACT amounts and EXACT ingredients. If you change anything, then the processing times would be different for that food. The density of food will also determine the processing times. That is why something like a juice will require less processing time than chunks of fruit. The chunks are more dense and will take longer for the heat to penetrate.

When they test the recipes, they are tested at all stages. The time it goes into the jars and then later on as the food has sat.

There is just so much to learn. Even the temp. at which you store your jars makes a difference. If they get too hot, foods can acutally spoil, or at least change colors. Fruits can get pale if left in light.

In all honesty, the person to ask more scientific, detailed things would be Elizabeth Andress at the National Center for Home Food Preservation. She is the one who has shared so much of her wisdom with us.

 

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  • 2 months later...

the old subject of canning butter.....

 

I have moved these last posts on this subject over to the cave. Anyone can read these threads but only members can read the cave. Please forgive me... Darlene made me do it! ROFL!!!

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  • 5 months later...

On the amish thing..

 

My family are from a conservative Mennonite background, I'm the first generation that was raised with no living relatives still using horse and buggy and living off the grid.

 

All the food preservation horror stories I have heard came after they stopped canning and producing their own food. Bad ice cream killed my mother's triplet sister in 1922, and my own sister has had several cases of tomaine in her family from stuff she froze or left sitting out too long. Honestly, I have to wonder if my niece thawed things and put them back in the freezer being a ditzy teen, it happened so often there for a while.

 

Of course we don't know what people died of years and years ago, especially in Amish and Mennonite communites, medicine, record keeping and testing was not what it is today.

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  • 1 month later...
.

 

I know we're not supposed to can butter or pumpkin butter. (Really not trying to start anything with that statement. I know there are some strong feelings on both sides of that argument.)

 

 

Wait! So we can't can pumpkin butter? Why not? this is a recipe I have, what about it makes it unsafe to can? I have been wanting to learn about canning...

 

2 1/2 c Pumpkin; cooked, mashed

3/4 c Sugar

1/4 c Apple cider or orange juice

1/2 ts Cinnamon, ground

1/2 ts Cloves, ground

1/4 ts Allspice, ground

1/4 ts Nutmeg, ground

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No pureed pumpkin product is safe to can. It needs to be frozen. The USDA has tested numerous recipes and they cannot find one recipe that will stay consistently safe and free from botulism. The pureed pumpkin will not allow the heat to penetrate enough to destroy all bacteria. Not even in a pressure canner.

No pureed foods other than fruits like applesauce, pearsauce, etc. are safe to can.

 

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  • 4 months later...

I'm new to canning - Just bought my canner yesterday new!! So here is my question: I've been looking online and watching you tube videos about canning spaghetti sauce. All the recipes I saw started with whole fresh tomatoes. Well I use canned tomato puree for my sauce base not fresh. Is the processing process still the same?? Can I pressure can it or do I have to do water bath?

 

Thanks so much!!

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Kimba,

Unless you find a safe, tested recipe from a reliable source, such as the Ball Blue book or one of the Extension/USDA sites or books, you will not be able to safely can it.

You cannot safely use your own recipes for canning. This is a common misconception among many home canners. Please, do not trust recipes from online sites, recipes from Aunty Sally, or even many canning books. Well meaning people may provide recipes, but they have no food preservation safety training. You should see and hear the unsafe recipes and method I do. It is not a good thing....

The ph level and density will not be the same for starting with a sauce compared to fresh tomatoes. Elizabeth Andress, who wrote the USDA guidelines has answered this question for me and she said to not try to substitute canned tomatoes or sauce when a recipe states fresh tomatoes.

I highly suggest getting a current BAll Blue book or the other Ball book, their Complete Book of Home Preserving and also So Easy to Preserve from the Univ. Of Georgia.

You can also get the info from So Easy to Preserve from the Univ. of Georgia's website.

They are known as the leading authority on safe home food preservation.

If you need more help, either send me a private message or post on another thread.

I will be happy to help you.

Wanted to add, if you want to preserve your own recipes, you will need to freeze them, not can them.

Edited by Violet
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  • 4 weeks later...

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! I read an article on the 'net about canning butter; it was really only putting melted butter in jars and sealing it. I did over 30 lbs. of it...now I find it may contain botulism!? I guess I'll start emptying the jars and washing them, a little at a time, so DH won't wonder why I'm throwing out all that butter. At over $4.00/lb, that is a lot of $$ to get rid of. *sigh

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Sorry, Pandora, but that is true. I would hesitate at dumping those jars. If you open them and they contain botulism, you put yourself at risk of getting it even if you don't eat it. It can be contracted if you have a cut in your skin or food splashes in your eye. Also, if it gets on your counter, in your sink, etc. then they are contaminated, too.

You really should toss the jars and all and not open them. Wrap the jars and all in a black trash bag and take it to the dump.

It is your choice, however, but this is the safe way to dispose of them since they have potential botulism toxin.

If you need a link on how to safely dispose of them here it is for you to read:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5626530_dispose-botulism-jars.html

 

Another one :

http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/pdfpubs/4078.pdf

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I like Jackie Clay from Backwoods Home, but I do wish she wouldn't tell people to can butter!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Originally Posted By: LissalueSorry if this is clearly stated somewhere and I am just missing it, but what about corn startch?

Starch is considered a thickener, therefore is not recommended for use in home canning.

 

Sorry I'm just reading through and trying to learn what I can about canning before ever actually attempting it. But I'm a little confused. I thought early you mentioned that ClearJel was corn starch that the government approves for use in canning and now you're saying not to use corn starch. Could you please clarify that for me?

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Okay finished reading through this and have a few more questions. I'm planning to buy a few books on canning when we get our taxes back so I can have a better idea and debating about buying a canner this year to try canning with the couple of things I'm planting or just waiting until next year when I've had the space cleared out and can plant a full garden. Right now I'm just trying to learn what I can about it. I'm not one to do something without knowing all that I can before trying it as I'm a very nervous type personality. (I won't even take something out of the oven when cooking it until someone else confirms that I was right it is in fact done.)

 

Anyway my questions. I was reading someplace in here I'm not sure if it was this exact thread or not, but it mentioned that the only safe thing to can on a pumpkin was pumpkin cubes without the skin on. What I was wondering was you were to can those could they later be used to make pumpkin pie after they were open? How long would those keep? If they were able to be used how many jars of pumpkin cubes would it take to make a pumpkin pie?

 

Secondly, I've seen recipies where you can can cherry, apple, blueberry and raspberry pie filling, but can you can sweet potato pie filling? If so which canning book would I buy to have a recipies for canning sweet potato pie filling?

 

Lastly if the idea was to save money by growing things in Zone 5 that can be preserved long enough to last until the following years harvest of foods, what would be the best food to be grown?

 

Thank you very much for any help you could give me on this.

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I thought early you mentioned that ClearJel was corn starch that the government approves for use in canning and now you're saying not to use corn starch. Could you please clarify that for me?

ClearJel® is modified from the cornstarch family, but that's where the similarity ends. It is resistant to break-down under high temperature and low pH conditions. This product is bland with essentially no cereal or starch taste. In retorted foods, it provides high viscosity, good clarity, and excellent sheen.

 

ClearJel® contributes to the shelf life stability of canned foods. Canned products retain a smooth texture and show no liquid separation upon storage. It is the only thickener approved for canning purposes by the USDA/NCHFP.

 

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