59 replies to this topic

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

Pixie, before I write this post it's important to me that you not take anything I say personally. My heart goes out to you in the pain you clearly felt over your own education, although it strongly appears here on this board through your posts that you are hardly lacking in intelligence and knowledge. Your situation is what can be referred to as anecdotal or simply, one person's experience. That, in no way, diminishes the pain you feel, but it is important to take the entire context of home education into account.

I think it's normal for children to peer over the fence into the world of others with the thought that perhaps another place is better. Sometimes home educated students do this; sometimes public schooled also long to be at home studying with a parent. It's human nature to see the grass as greener on the other side. This is not to discount your feelings, but it is a reality of life.

I homeschooled my oldest until he was in 4th grade and, due to a health problem, I placed him in a local public school. The doctor had told me to get more rest for my condition, but I was at the school at least two days each week volunteering to help. While there I witnessed some incredibly negative things which only furthered my conviction that home educating is the best route to go.

All it took was 3 months before my son came home one day asking why his teacher was not teaching certain subjects he had enjoyed learning in homeschooling. He actually asked me why he should even go to public school if they're not teaching his favorite subject until he's in 10th grade. Given the limiting structure of the school system he was no longer allowed such flexibility in pursuing his keen interest. He actually asked to come back home and since I was hardly "resting" given all the tension stemming from the public school's rigidity, I welcomed the opportunity to homeschool once again. In fact, upon witnessing how little the public school teacher was able to accomplish in a classroom size of 16 children my confidence that what we were doing worked....actually soared.

In addition, within the first month of my son's attending public school he was not only exposed to raw photos of homosexual acts by another student, but his music teacher asked the children to dance to rock music while standing behind a thin screen so that the shadows moved back and forth. Years later, a friend who is a therapist (not a Christian) actually told me that this teacher was very likely a homosexual because that is the type of thing such people enjoy.

Thankfully, my child was in the institutionalized system for only 4 months before eagerly returning to home education and today he is outspoken in supporting it, along with my other children.

Pixie, you mention that you did not finish certain grades in school. What needs to be realized here is that public school teachers seldom finish books used in teaching their subjects. It's very difficult to do so when you've got so many students to attend to, each one of which possesses different learning styles and discipline challenges.

The very fact that multiple research studies comparing homeschoolers with publicly schooled children shows those who are home educated excelling over their institutionally schooled peers in all areas....says a great deal.

However faulty you feel your own homeschool experience to be, the vast majority of children who are home educated excel both academically and socially. Anyone wanting the facts on this can go to www.nheri.org founded by a former college professor and high school teacher who first began researching home education with the full expectation that he would find failures across the board. He was shocked upon finding just the opposite.

Studies have shown that even mothers who have no college education do a very fine job of educating their own children. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that they have fewer children to work with and even in larger families, as children get older, they can help in reading to the younger ones.

But a key ingredient missing in this discussion that is crucial for our nation's wellbeing is this: Character and moral development. Most homeschoolers teach in large part because they desire to instill high moral standards into their children. The government school system is doing just the opposite by teaching female students how to place condoms on the fingers of male classmates; teaching that homosexuality is a virtuous lifestyle and also teaching that Christians are harsh and violent. If anyone here does not believe this, then check out the DVD titled Suffer the Children from www.afa.net which shows actual film footage of this type of brainwashing occurring in public school classrooms.

It is alarming and it's tragic that more parents do not fully grasp the magnitude of what this means for our nation's security down the road. I do not feel the least bit bold in saying that, if parents don't wake up to what is happening soon, an entire generation of socialist minded citizens will one day be voting in homosexual marriage and worse. Already, studies are showing that most publicly schooled young people think homosexual behavior is acceptable.

I'm sorry that you felt embarrassment over the teeshirt your mother wanted you to wear, but I can assure you that Christian children shamed for mentioning the name of Christ in government school classrooms also feel embarrassment in front of their peers. And for nothing other than believing the moral principles their parents taught them.

I once held my tongue on these matters over concern about offending others. But I can tell you that even if I had not had children and homeschooled, I would be just as concerned as I am now. This is not about me being right and other people being wrong. I don't care a twit about that. This is about our nation's wellbeing and the preservation of children's innocence.

For any who public schooled on this board I know you did the best you could given your circumstances. I believe most parents want the best for their children. But many simply are unaware of what is happening within government school systems. I have lived in both worlds. Yes, there are children who grow up well adjusted after being in public schools. Undoubtedly, some mothers here have such children they can be very proud of. But there are also many who are spiritually and academically hurt from the experience.

According to Dr. Robert Simonds, founder of the Center for Excellence in Education: "98% of children homeschooled from a Biblical worldview keep their faith in Jesus Christ after graduating. But a shocking 85% of Christian children sent to public schools for 12 years drop out of church and do not hold a Christian worldview by high school graduation."

In fact, my church held a special graduation ceremony last May for graduating seniors. The youth leader commented to my son that he didn't even know most of the kids who came. In other words, their parents attend our church, but their kids have dropped out. They only came to the graduation ceremony because it was an honor to do so. That says an awful lot.

I realize by my honesty here that I'm not going to be on a few people's "favorites list" because this is a sensitive topic, but I speak the truth in love and caring for all children. And I do respect everyone's opinions here in spite of disagreements.

[Kygal]

i have no doubt that homeschooling is best, and i see that in my home-schooled cousins, and i saw that during the teachers strike when i was homeschooling my daughter. i have decided to continue teaching my daughter at home, but i am also keeping her in school. (she wrote me a report on the dairy industry just yesterday) as soon as my maternity leave is up i have to go back to work because we can not afford to live on pats income. if things change and we can live on one income i will consider keeping sapphire at home. for now she loves going to school, and she has many friends there. schools in canada are very different than those in the states, and the schools and teachers vary greatly from town to town and city to city.

i finally got my GED(general education diploma) and now i can attend collage if i like. and i have. to pass the GED test you need 45%. i passed with 46% and i spent months studying beforehand.

evergreen, your situation and my moms situation differ greatly,. you had a good, well paying job and no doubt are happily married. my mom never worked as long as i could remember(she does now that she has no kids at home) we lived on a fixed income, and not a very large one at that. my father was abusive, and i had to stay home all day. thankfully jo and the rest of my siblings were young enough when he died that they dont remember much(if any) of the bad things, but me and mom sure do. it was not untill 10 or so years after his death that anyone could really talk about the bad things.


snowmom, that t-shirt was not a uniform, it was just something my mom wanted to make, but the plus side to the t-shirt was that i learned how to silkscreen. heh heh our uniform was a loooong navy blue skirt and a white blouse. which i also hated, my mom seemed to like dressing us in frilly things. i am not a frilly sort of gal. lol

the curriculum that mom bought was ATIA i guess it takes all lessons from the bible? dont know, i never really read the books. except the one where you lean greek words. lol i have always loved languages, i was in french immersion when i was in school, and now i am learning spanish. the only good thing i remember about ATIA is that i got to go to tennessee. of course, i did not like having to wear the uniform, or singing in the choir...but i was standing in line one day for food and someone walked up and handed me a 1000 dollar bill from zaire. since then i collect foreign money and i have many from all times and places now.


teaberry, i am happy that your children love homeschooling. i am not offended by anything you said. i agree that teaching in a school is difficult because everyone learns differently and at a different pace. i agree that kids do not need to be exposed to a lot of the things that they are exposed to in school. there are some kids whos homes are worse than the schools, there are kids who are taught to hate at home, there are kids who are taught to be little adults(not in a good way) there are kids who are abused so badly that they think that is how they should rtreat others. you put all these kids with the ones from good homes, and that is where you get such a mix of good and bad. peer pressure. the teachers aren't teaching hatetred or homosexuality or anti-religon,or anything if the sort(at least if they are they should be fired), but they are issues promenantly in the news, and how can you teach history and social studies without touching upon what is in current news? of course, this is for the older grades, not the little kids.

not to offend anyone here, i dont believe in god. i dont base my life on the bible, i dont believe the bible is a very accurate account of what actually happened. i do respect your beliefs and i will never say anything negative about them no matter what any of you believe. i think that you may know more where i am coming from if you know that i do not believe the same as you. (does that make sense?)

i have nothing against homeschooling but i am not ready to take that step but i know that in the event of a strike or total system failure that i could and that i would know how not to do it.

i hope that nothing i have said is offensive, and i hope that it makes sense. (i was inturrupted in typing this many times. lol)

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

Pixie, thanks for your graciousness. I love your sweet spirit in your posts here so much. Like you I grew up in a rough family environment so I empathize with much of what you say. I also appreciate your openmindedness regarding Christians sharing their experiences here on this board.

[Freetobeme]

Oh dear, what a can of worms! I take exception to teachers reading such books as ones about having two moms to little kids. I also take exception to teachers having sex with their students.

Pixie - I also did not finish school. I married when I was fifteen and dropped out at the beginning of tenth grade. I got my GED and went on to college and grad school. It took a long time, my undergraduate degree wasn't finished until I was 35. My kids did go to school for one year, but they decided that the school was way too far behind them and wanted to go back to homeschooling. All of my kids have attended college and succeeded. Their GPAs range from 3.5 to 4.0. The problem with some unschooling type parents is they don't make sure their kids are learning. Basics such as phonics and spelling and math have to be taught. The kids should however have input into such things as topics for literature, science, social studies, etc. You still guide their learning, require them to share what they learn, and be a motivating force. Your example of current events is good. If you discuss a current event with your kids, one may decide to research the history of the problem, one may look at the human dynamics in the present and future, another may be interested in a particular person involved in the event. Everyone has their own personal slant. They also have unique learning styles which I will post some info on at a later time.

Now before anyone gets offended by the rest of this, this is my opinion based on my readings. You certainly don't have to agree with me if you have a different view.

As for the believing in God thing...you can be a very moral person and not believe in the literal translation of the Bible or in God. I personally did not believe in God for a long time, but the older I get and the more things I see and experience, the more I believe that there is a guiding force behind all of this. There are many contradictions and things that are not logical in the Bible's pages. You have to keep in mind that it was put on paper by men and translated many times by men. The original intention is still valid, I believe, but if you want to start holding it up for close analysis of dates and ages and such, it has it's shortcomings. What I hold dear is the outline of what it means to be a good person. The Ten Commandments for instance. I would be surprised if anyone could make a valid argument against such directives as Thou shalt not kill (or murder as it was in some translations). Such "Christian" ideals as fidelity in marriage and waiting for marriage to be sexually active are valid family oriented practices. After all, if you both wait until you are in a stable marriage to have sex, what are the chances of becoming a single parent or contracting an STD? I don't view a person's religious beliefs as the be all and end of all of whether or not they are a 'good' person. I try to look at their actions.

Just MHO

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

Quote:

(((((pixie))))) we love you just the way you are...and you very eloquently stated your stance with kindness and understanding...

Yes!!!!! Perhaps these links will be of interest to others as well. I've heard tapes of Ravi Zacharias speaking before university audiences and he has them dazzled by the time the evening is finished. He was once a Hindu and an audio of one of his talks can be accessed at this link. This particular talk does not address your concerns, Gh, but I provide it because listening to him speak is a real treat. http://www.rzim.org/radio/archives.php?p=JT&v=current

http://www.rzim.org/publications/jttran.php?seqid=17

http://www.rzim.org/publications/jttran.php?seqid=52

http://www.rzim.org/publications/slicetran.php?sliceid=559

http://www.rzim.org/publications/slicetran.php?sliceid=558

http://www.rzim.org/publications/slicetran.php?sliceid=927

http://www.rzim.org/publications/slicetran.php?sliceid=550

Some additional resources:

http://www.traderspointchurch.org/ID/ID210.html

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumcon2.htm

Statements from a liberal Protestant concerning the veracities of the Bible gleaned from the Dead Sea Scrolls:

Nothing that appears in the Scrolls hitherto discovered throws any doubt on the originality of Christianity... The undersigned belong to different denominations or to none. They have no concern but to establish the truth and to see that these important documents are studied and evaluated with caution, scholarship, and a sense of proportion.

It is quite true that as a liberal Protestant I do not share all the beliefs of my more conservative brethren. It is my considered conclusion, however, that if one will go through any of the historic statements of Christian faith he will find nothing that has been or can be disproved by the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is as true of things that I myself do not believe as it is of my most firm and cherished convictions. If I were so rash as to undertake a theological debate with a professor from either the Moody Bible Institute or Fordham University [a Catholic University] -- which God forbid -- I fear I should find no ammunition in the Dead Sea Scrolls to use against them. (Millar Burrows, More Light on the Dead Sea Scrolls, p. 39)

And also, http://www.contenderministries.org/biblest...dseascrolls.php

[Freetobeme]

Good idea Darlene. We have some major thread drift here.

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

How did this thread even get into doctrinal topics anyway?? All I can say is this is a thinking bunch here!

Well, I've a few more:

Homeschool Revolt

Overworked Mothers

Everything I need to know about life I learned at home....or something like that.

[Freetobeme]

Teaberry - have you been into my Mogan David? Huh? C'mon confess!

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

Nope. Cat made me do it.

I got high off that custard pie she threw at me in chat earlier tonight! Knocked me silly.....

[Kygal]

i think its myfault, i started it...lol

thanks for being supportive and understanding, i am always very nervous when i state my opinion on potential "touchy" subjects such as personal beliefs and such, i never know how i will come across, and sometimes people assume the worst and bet angry without thinking. i am very releaved that what i said was not taken the wrong way. i'll try not to hijack topics anymore. lol

carry on!! lol

[shamrockus]

IMO parents are their childrens primary and ultimate teachers, wheather they are homeshcooled or in public schools, so why not reflect that in the name?
PTL Parents teaching lifeskills

[Synn]

Holy Crud.. I am gone for one day and look what happens!