5 replies to this topic

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

My heart absolutely sank when I read this today. What begins in California has a way of finding its way across the country and in this case it's a sure thing because this is much bigger than just one school district. In my mind this is child abuse and I'm very concerned. The innocence of our young ones is being systematically destroyed. Does anyone have ideas on how this kind of thing can be halted before it goes much further? These parents took it to the court and their efforts failed. What next? Up to the Supreme Court?

Frankly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I think more people ought to take action by pulling their children out in droves. Only then will the business of public schools feel the monetary loss and begin taking parental concerns seriously. Your thoughts? Ideas for solutions?

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47195

LAW OF THE LAND
Court: It does take a village when it comes to sexuality
Parents 'have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools'
November 3, 2005

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled yesterday against parents who sued their local school district after their elementary-age children were given a sexually charged survey, saying there is "no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children."

The three-judge panel of the full court further ruled that parents "have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students."

Six parents sued the Palmdale, Calif., School District after finding out their kids had been asked a series of sexual questions in class. They included asking the children about the frequency of:

Touching my private parts too much

Thinking about having sex

Thinking about touching other people's private parts

Thinking about sex when I don't want to

Washing myself because I feel dirty on the inside

Not trusting people because they might want sex

Getting scared or upset when I think about sex

Having sex feelings in my body

Can't stop thinking about sex

Getting upset when people talk about sex

Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote the unanimous opinion for the court. Referring to the fact the parents lost their case at the district-court level, Reinhardt wrote:

We agree [with the previous ruling], and hold that there is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children, either independent of their right to direct the upbringing and education of their children or encompassed by it. We also hold that parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students. Finally, we hold that the defendants' actions were rationally related to a legitimate state purpose. [emphasis Reinhardt's].

Carrie Gordon Earll is director of issue analysis with Focus on the Family Action.

"Anyone who wonders why pro-family organizations like ours have been so concerned about activist courts only has to look at this case," Earll said in a statement. "The 9th Circuit did more than rule against parents who were upset that their elementary-school-aged children were being asked explicit questions about sex in class. They told all parents they have no right to protest what public schools tell their children."

Continued Earll: "What the court did here is declare parenthood unconstitutional. It's long been the liberal view that it takes a village to raise a child – but never before have the 'villagers' been elevated, as a matter of law, above mothers and fathers."

The controversy began in 2001 when a volunteer "mental health counselor" at Mesquite Elementary School set out to conduct a psychological assessment test of students in the first, third and fifth grades.

A letter to parents asked for their consent to conduct the study but did not indicate that questions of a sexual nature would be asked. The survey included 79 questions divided into four parts. Ten of those questions were of a sexual nature.

According to the court's opinion, the plaintiffs took action after their children participated in the survey and later told their parents about the sexual questions. Seeking damages and injunctive relief, the parents charged the district violated their federal constitutional right to privacy.

The lower court had ruled against the parents, saying the right "to control the upbringing of their children by introducing them to matters of and relating to sex in accordance with their personal and religious values and beliefs" does not rise to the level of a fundamental right protected by substantive due process.

Wrote Reinhardt: "As with all constitutional rights, the right of parents to make decisions concerning the care, custody and control of their children is not without limitations. In Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158 (1944), the Court recognized that parents' liberty interest in the custody, care and nurture of their children resides 'first' in the parents, but does not reside there exclusively, nor is it 'beyond regulation [by the state] in the public interest.' For example, the state 'as parens patriae' may restrict parents' interest in the custody, care and nurture of their children 'by requiring school attendance, regulating or prohibiting the child's labor and in many other ways.'"

Reinhardt also cited previous cases that upheld the right of schools to educate children about issues of sexuality.

[Freetobeme]

It depends on the state. In AZ anything dealing with sex has a notify and opt out policy. We offered abstinence classes (boys and girls attended separate classes) presented by Catholic Social Services. It required parental permission for them to attend. When I taught about the reproductive system (very clinical) parents could have their child opt out of any or all of it. I made the materials available for parental review before the unit was taught. Any type of survey dealing with sexual issues had to have notification of parents in advance and they could opt their child out.

I don't have a problem with schools teaching basic biology and health topics. The survey you posted is way beyond anything that schools should be doing. Homeschool anyone??

[Roseofsharon]

Yes - they should have a right

-but no they won't especially if they are in public school. Have you not heard stories of stuff that goes on. One middle school principle near by announced from the loud speaker that 'what happened at Marshal stayed at Marshal' this was referring to some incident of older kids bulling younger in the bathrooms... Several in this area pulled theirs outafter a 5th grade health class teacher (nurse) told the kids sex felt really good -& they should not be afraid of it. (while not untrue- is this what I want someone else discussing with MY kids)

My oldest went back to PS in the 9th grade- one of his teachers told the class- they should hire a prostitute before getting married -it was cheaper. (Even though he may be right theoretically) No telling what else he learned. But he never told me this stuff when it was going on I always heard from some other kid after the fact. (I will add he did have the occasional awesome teacher that really cared and taught him well) As a whole the things my son learned socially in PS changed him greatly as a person, his goals, his personality, and habbits. The choices he made were his - so I do not blame the school system- but my other two won't go unless it is over my dead body.

The best way to control what your children learn from adults and other kids while young is teach them at home!

[Synn]

All I can say about this is OH MY GOD! I don't use that term very often.. It did me absolutely no good to teach my daughter not to "have sex".. She even took a Love Waits Oath.. But in a highschool where it's socially accepted to have sex before your 16, and now I have a pregnant dd on my hands..

[Freetobeme]

Buttercup - There are plenty of other places where your DD can have social interaction with other kids. Keep in mind that putting your little angel in with 30 or more other kids (with who knows what kind of upbringing) under the supervision of one over-worked teacher (with who knows what kind of values) is not a good way to provide 'socialization'. IMHO socialization in this fashion does more harm than good. I wanted my kids to grow up to be comfortable interacting with adults as well as their immediate peers. After all, we spend most of our lives in the adult world, so isn't it important to know how to relate there? Besides, kids learn constantly from those around them. Just looking at the number of interactions with people in a child's typical school day, how many of them are with good role models? Let's see...30 kids, one teacher, teacher spends most of his/her time on the 'problem kids'...Your child receives less than 1/30th of the teacher's attention. The rest of her day is filled with whatever the other kids have to offer.

[Roseofsharon]

About social interaction -

I had someone ask me the other day if 15 year old DS resented not hanging out with kids his age much. I said no he did not - but I had to think about it for a while to figure out why.

We are rural so there is not a huge selection his age and small town -you know everyone's business - (no I do not gossip -or judge -but I do keep my ears open about who is drinking, smoking pot, ect my son's age) Anyway this was a big issue for oldest son - he always felt like he was missing something- needed peers his age -but middle son is different -and he is not shy -he loves people. I think looking at my boys the difference in them being content is having lots of interests & hobbies -(or even one interest /talent) and developing it. Not everything has to work out -lots of lessons in things that fail too. He does not have much time to worry about who is not around.

Also since he has homeschooled most of his life he is totally comfortable around all ages. I see him holding conversations with different men (especially the ones who hunt) at church as much as he is with the teens. His closest friend is my DH's cousin who he works for and he is close to 30. When Ds age 8 has friends over he runs with them for a while. I see him drawn to people he has something in common with no matter the gender or age.