This week, we are going to discuss the care of our 'producing' animals. By that I mean animals that are not pets, but produce something that we need, be that eggs, meat, milk, fur, manure, feathers, etc. We'll discuss housing & feeding needs, harvesting the animals' products, and share lots of links.
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CHAT 5/31 - Livestock on the small homestead
Started by
HSmom
, May 29 2007 12:47 PM
2 replies to this topic
#3
HSmom
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- 4,908 posts
Honored Family Member
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Posted 31 May 2007 - 12:52 PM
Chat logWelcome! You have entered [The Lounge] at 6:56 am
[HSmom] 6:57 am: Good morning!
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has entered at 7:08 am
[HSmom] 7:08 am: Good morning!
[jewlzm] 7:08 am: Morning!
[HSmom] 7:09 am: I don't think UKGuy is really here - or if he is, he's not
speaking to me. lol
[jewlzm] 7:09 am: uhmm.. I dont see UKguy
[HSmom] 7:10 am: Oh. He shows on my little list of who's here: Me, you, him.
[HSmom] 7:10 am: Guess he really isn't.
[jewlzm] 7:10 am: lol .. its just me and you here
[HSmom] 7:10 am: That's all right. You awake enough to get started?
[jewlzm] 7:11 am: well Im awake..
[HSmom] 7:11 am: Here, have some coffee & a doughnut....
[jewlzm] 7:12 am: lol you just made my stomach growl
[HSmom] 7:12 am: lol
[HSmom] 7:13 am: Our topic today is Livestock on the Small Homestead.
[The Lounge]: Joan has entered at 7:13 am
[HSmom] 7:13 am: I know you have rabbits, and I'm sure you read about my duck
butchering last week.
[jewlzm] 7:13 am: welcome Joan
[HSmom] 7:13 am: Good morning Joan! I actually beat you here today!
[jewlzm] 7:14 am: Having an issue with the rabbits at the moment... they keep
eating their kits.. trying to figure out which one is going to go on the menu
first
[HSmom] 7:14 am: How do you have them housed?
[Joan] 7:14 am: I almost didn't come today. I was tryign to decide if I wanted
to
[jewlzm] 7:14 am: DH built a hutch to house their cages
[HSmom] 7:15 am: But together, separately?
[HSmom] 7:15 am: How come Joan?
[Joan] 7:16 am: I don't have livestock and all of my limited knolwdge comes from
my large animal call I took a couple years ago when I thought I wanted to be a
vet tech
[jewlzm] 7:16 am: lol yes.. together seperately
[HSmom] 7:17 am: Well, you're still welcome to hang out and learn Joan - that's
my hope for all our chats.
[HSmom] 7:17 am: So they are each in their own cages? Do they have a private
nest box? Any human handle the kits before the moms eat them?
[HSmom] 7:18 am: And what breed are they?
[jewlzm] 7:20 am: uhmm.. no.. not private nesting box. Never thought that would
be an issue.. but only one has given birth in it if that counts for much.
[jewlzm] 7:20 am: No people have handled the kits before mom eats them
[jewlzm] 7:20 am: and they are New Zealand whites
[HSmom] 7:21 am: There's time to work things out then. I haven't had rabbits
myself, but I've read a LOT on them. From what I hear, it's 'okay' if a
first-time mom eats one litter. But 2nd time around, she needs to figure it out.
[jewlzm] 7:21 am: Westie says to give her 3 shots before she becomes menu
material
[HSmom] 7:21 am: Here's a quote: "Historically thought of as a utility or
working rabbit, the New Zealand meat rabbit has been selected for hundreds and
hundreds of meat rabbit breeders. This is because they have good outgoing
personalities and are easy to work with. They don't tend to bite or struggle and
they don't get sick or have health problems nearly as often as other breeds."
[HSmom] 7:22 am: From the same website: "Californians make good pets because of
their friendly nature. Californians breed well and look after there own litters
well. Californians have a pleasant personality and normally enjoy some human
contact. "
[HSmom] 7:22 am: Westie probably knows what she's talking about.
[HSmom] 7:23 am: That website is: http://www.mybunnyfarm.com/ - it mentions pet
rabbits quite a bit, but does have info on meat rabbits.
[jewlzm] 7:24 am: Well I keep teasing my dd that her rabbit is grumpy because of
the name she gave it.. she named it Viper
[HSmom] 7:24 am: lol
[HSmom] 7:25 am: How long have you had your rabbits?
[jewlzm] 7:25 am: I used to raise rabbits back home before marriage and all that
came with it.. the rabbits we have now we have barely had a year so Im working
on re-learning all I thought I knew
[HSmom] 7:26 am: Did you have New Zealands back home too?
[Joan] 7:27 am: brb gotta go move my car
[jewlzm] 7:28 am: we had a few.. but this is the first time I have had to deal
with kit killers.. lol
[HSmom] 7:28 am: What do you think are the advantages & disadvantages of rabbits
on the small homestead?
[HSmom] 7:28 am: We'll still be here Joan.
[Joan] 7:31 am: back
[HSmom] 7:31 am: Jewlz...still typing?
[jewlzm] 7:31 am: well for starters you never know what attitude problem your
rabbits will have.. you dont know how well they will produce
[jewlzm] 7:32 am: lol thinking and typing
[HSmom] 7:32 am: Okay... just making sure you didn't wander off into
cyberspace... keep talking.
[jewlzm] 7:32 am: We started small.. one male two females.. so far we havent
seen the pros pass the cons
[jewlzm] 7:33 am: They may eventually. Its a learning experience because of
having to deal with things I dont ever remember dealing with before.
[jewlzm] 7:34 am: It could very well be a first time mom thing and that it will
get ironed out but you never know. I may have just been feeding my 3 meals for
the past several months .. time will tell
[HSmom] 7:34 am: I was thinking of some advantages, such as: rabbits are quieter
than any other livestock.
[HSmom] 7:34 am: They are small (compared to say: a steer).
[jewlzm] 7:35 am: With a family of 5 here .. knowing that rabbits CAN produce
well it is a relatively cheap starter
[jewlzm] 7:36 am: Well yes.. they are quieter.. and smell more pleasant if kept
up after
[HSmom] 7:36 am: Roughly what did it cost for your rabbits? What about all their
stuff (housing, food, etc)?
[jewlzm] 7:36 am: They dont take up as much room (which is really good ) I dont
have enough room for cows and pigs yet
[jewlzm] 7:37 am: They were about 10-15 dollars each.. their housing was really
easy to make and most of it we had on hand because DH works with metal. Food
runs about 10 bucks every 2 months
[HSmom] 7:38 am: Wow... that is pretty reasonable. Do you primarily feed
pellets?
[jewlzm] 7:38 am: We may get some laying hens come the end of June if we can
make sure the area we live in allows it
[jewlzm] 7:39 am: feed pellets and garden scraps some of the time..such as left
over lettuce from dinner salads or just excess from the garden (I have 30
lettuce plants growing and not on purpose either)
[HSmom] 7:40 am: Before we move on to poultry, I have a couple more rabbit links
to tuck in here: http://www.rudolphsrabbitranch.com/rrr.htm and
http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/basics.htm
[HSmom] 7:40 am: Do you give them alfalfa? Has it gone up in price, like hay &
straw have lately?
[jewlzm] 7:40 am: Well one thing I have learned is make sure of who you get your
rabbits from.. Make sure they are well taken care of before you buy.
[HSmom] 7:41 am: What would I look for - to be sure of that?
[jewlzm] 7:41 am: no.. no alfalfa
[jewlzm] 7:41 am: Well after I bought mine I had to make another trip out to get
their water bottles.. I walked in and there were dead rabbits in the cages..
[jewlzm] 7:42 am: I didnt think about it before but the rabbits wernt picked up
after and their water bottles were not clean
[HSmom] 7:42 am: Ew... and
... Do you think they cleaned up special for your
first planned visit?
[jewlzm] 7:42 am: A week later the whole place was under quarentine
[HSmom] 7:43 am: It's too bad that there are people like that out there.
[jewlzm] 7:43 am: Could have been because they knew we were coming but they
didnt know about my second visit in advance
[HSmom] 7:43 am: That's stinky.
[jewlzm] 7:44 am: lol yes.. it was very stinky.. which I just assumed came with
rabbits in an enclosed space.
[HSmom] 7:44 am: I take it your rabbitry smells better. ... Are you using their
manure on your garden?
[jewlzm] 7:45 am: yes.. my rabbits are taken care of.. cleaned up after and
bottles changed out regularly
[jewlzm] 7:45 am: I use the manure in my garden .. saves on buying the steer
manure from the locals around here
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has left at 7:47 am
[jewlzm] 7:47 am: There were lots of lessons learned this time around with
rabbits.. The new place we get our supplies from take care of their rabbits much
better and they seem to have alot less issues with their rabbits and customers
complaining
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has left at 7:47 am
[HSmom] 7:47 am: oopsies! I had another question all typed out for her!
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has entered at 7:47 am
[jewlzm] 7:47 am: ouch
[HSmom] 7:47 am: There you are!
[jewlzm] 7:48 am: I got booted
[HSmom] 7:48 am: Okay... and butchering... did you help before when you had
rabbits? Can you compare it to poultry butchering? After my pin feather fiasco,
I'm thinking skinning sounds good.
[jewlzm] 7:49 am: I do killing skinning cleaning.. I have never shot a deer or
elk but I always help with the gutting skinning . Chickens on the other hand are
different. I always seem to end up with more feathers than actually came on the
bird lol
[HSmom] 7:49 am: lol
[HSmom] 7:50 am: I can relate to that!
[HSmom] 7:50 am: How long - would you estimate - that it takes you to butcher,
skin, gut & cut a rabbit?
[jewlzm] 7:50 am: my dd says that if we are going to have her bunny for dinner..
she gets to be the one to kill it..
[HSmom] 7:50 am: Wow! How old is she?
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: it shouldnt take you more than 30 minutes if you know what
your doing
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: she is 9
[HSmom] 7:51 am: Tough girl.
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: she helped with gutting and skinning the deer and the elk this
year
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: this past year..
[HSmom] 7:51 am: And if you don't know what you're doing - say your first one -
maybe an hour each?
[jewlzm] 7:52 am: well with proper instruction .. maybe an hour. Its seriously
not that hard.. Id say its harder to do a chicken because of all the feathers
[HSmom] 7:52 am: I have to say that gutting the poultry didn't bother me a bit.
Partially because I find it interesting to look at all the parts and pieces.
[jewlzm] 7:52 am: did you save the heart liver and gizzards?
[HSmom] 7:54 am: Hearts, liver & necks for the cat & dog (cooked). I didn't try
to separate the gizzards from the rest of the crop. I was a bit overwhelmed by
the whole process and really didn't care that much. I did five and the only help
I had was my 6 yo dd who held a long stick that held down their heads for
chopping.
[jewlzm] 7:55 am: hehehe hey.. thats pretty good help from a 6 year old... you
should be proud of yourself for doing 5 for fist time out
[jewlzm] 7:55 am: first
[The Lounge]: Joan has left at 7:56 am
[HSmom] 7:56 am: Had I done only one or two that day... there would now be an ad
somewhere reading: Free ducklings... lol It took me 7 hours - and it was
exhausting.
[The Lounge]: Joan has entered at 7:56 am
[HSmom] 7:57 am: WB Joan. Seems to be going around today. Hope I'm not next!
[jewlzm] 7:57 am: wb Joan
[Joan] 7:57 am: I tend to get kicked out if I don't say anything for awhile
[HSmom] 7:58 am: Well... little danger of that for me then! lol
[HSmom] 7:58 am: So let's talk about poultry....
[jewlzm] 7:58 am: I got kicked out while typing... so I guess if you dont sit
still or type to often you should be safe
[HSmom] 7:58 am: Jewlz you have some poultry experience?
[HSmom] 7:58 am: lol
[jewlzm] 7:59 am: Some.. I had to help grandma with her chickens.. never delt
with ducks though
[HSmom] 8:00 am: Not much difference in the essentials. Ducks require less
shelter. They better tolerate cool wet weather. They don't scratch, but they do
probe with their bills. They do not require swimming water, but do appreciate
it.
[HSmom] 8:00 am: Lemme grab the book...
[HSmom] 8:01 am: Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks by
[HSmom] 8:01 am: Dave Holderread compares ducks and chickens... other key points
are:
[HSmom] 8:04 am: Lower fence for ducks, more resisitant to parasites & diseases,
some breeds are better foragers than chickens, day olds cost about 25% more, lay
more pounds of eggs per year, slightly better feed conversion ratio for layers,
less mortality, produce eggs longer, slightly worse feed conversion ratio for
fryers/roasters.
[HSmom] 8:05 am: lol - according to the book, typical plucking time for a duck
is 3 - 15 minutes (compared to 2 -10 for a chicken). lol *sigh* I wish!
[jewlzm] 8:05 am: did it work out that way for you HSmom?
[HSmom] 8:06 am: Psh! 20 minutes was the very best time I had, and there were
still pinfeathers left. I'll get them before I cook it.
[HSmom] 8:06 am: It was pinfeather h - e - double hockey sticks!
[jewlzm] 8:06 am: hehehe
[jewlzm] 8:07 am: do ducks flop around like chickens after their heads come off?
[HSmom] 8:07 am: I've never had chickens, so I cannot personally attest to all
the comparisons, but one nice thing is that their bills are more gentle than a
chickens beak, so my kids haven't ever been hurt by a duck.
[HSmom] 8:08 am: Oh yes... I think everything flops - it has something to do
with severing the spinal cord, I think. I meant to look that up.
[jewlzm] 8:10 am: kiddos are having a real hard time dealing with the morning..
brb
[HSmom] 8:12 am: Okay.
[HSmom] 8:12 am: I found this: "In a chicken, the brain stem (which is the
lowest part of the brain) controls most of the reflexes. When someone beheads a
chicken, the brain stem is often left intact, allowing the animal to maintain
it's reflexes and continue to live. If the head was cut lower on the neck,
severing the brain stem, this would not happen. "
[jewlzm] 8:12 am: wow.. someone is definately having a bad morning.. I think 4
year old didnt get all his sleep out
[HSmom] 8:12 am: Also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken *gag*
[HSmom] 8:13 am: Mmm... sorry to hear that.
[jewlzm] 8:14 am: lol hmmm.. someone needed to hit that one a bit lower
[HSmom] 8:14 am: Or hit it again! Heavens!
[jewlzm] 8:14 am: Grandpa always made them flop around for the pure enjoyment of
the grandkids
[HSmom] 8:14 am: Bleh!! That's a bit much before breakfast!
[HSmom] 8:15 am: I wrapped mine up so they couldn't flop much. It bothered all
of us.
[HSmom] 8:16 am: The worst was that one head stayed on the chopping block
(instead of falling to the ground). I was busy swooping up the body and
suspending it over the bucket and the kids saw the body-less head's beak open
and close a few times.
[jewlzm] 8:16 am: hehehehehe
[jewlzm] 8:17 am: sorry I guess that would be kind of traumatic for a young
child.. I didnt mean to laugh
[jewlzm] 8:17 am: I just couldnt help myself
[HSmom] 8:17 am: BTW, I meant the "Mike" story was a bit much before breakfast -
not what your Grandpa did.
[HSmom] 8:18 am: It's okay to laugh. We laughed about a few things that day too.
[jewlzm] 8:18 am: thats alright.. I already had breakfast Poor Mike!
[HSmom] 8:18 am: I haven't had breakfast!
[jewlzm] 8:19 am: I dont understand the still feeding a headless chicken thing
though
[jewlzm] 8:20 am: ok .. what does it take to care for your ducks? special feed
or anything?
[HSmom] 8:20 am: I guess he dripped in the esophagus.
[HSmom] 8:20 am: Chicken feed.
[HSmom] 8:20 am: It's a bit different for young ducks, but adults do find on a
layer mix or all-purpose mix.
[HSmom] 8:21 am: They have a nest box. In the winter they have a dog house for
shelter. And a lamp to keep them laying.
[jewlzm] 8:22 am: Other than the killing/cleaning.. not alot of time put in to
raising?
[HSmom] 8:22 am: No, chores take maybe 15 minutes a day.
[HSmom] 8:23 am: It was a little longer when we had the babies - those first two
or three weeks - maybe 30 - 40 minutes per day.
[HSmom] 8:23 am: They splash water around a lot which soils the bedding quickly
- cleaning up that is what took so long.
[jewlzm] 8:24 am: ok by chores you mean?
[jewlzm] 8:24 am: ahh.. gotcha
[The Lounge]: pauline has entered at 8:24 am
[jewlzm] 8:24 am: hiya pauline
[pauline] 8:24 am: hi sorry i a late
[jewlzm] 8:25 am: So do they lay eggs everyday? (sorry never delt with ducks)
[HSmom] 8:25 am: Feeding, changing water, and cleaning up. In the winter,
cleaning up means throwing down more clean straw over the poopy areas. In the
summer, it means tractoring them on the grass.
[HSmom] 8:25 am: Good morning pauline!
[jewlzm] 8:25 am: I dont know why but I figured they wouldnt lay but once a
season
[HSmom] 8:25 am: And gathering the eggs, of course.
[HSmom] 8:26 am: Indian runners & Khaki campbells lay - according to the book -
250 - 340 eggs per year.
[jewlzm] 8:26 am: (picturing an egg hunt)
[HSmom] 8:27 am: My old ladies are three years old. For May I got...77 eggs -
about 2.5 per day, from three hens.
[HSmom] 8:28 am: But somebody's starting to moult (again!) so it'll slow down
(again!). As they age, they are moulting mroe an more often.
[HSmom] 8:29 am: We don't have to hunt for the eggs silly. They lay in the nest
box.
[jewlzm] 8:30 am: My sister in law does free range chickens. her and her kids do
have an egg hunt pretty much every day.. LOL
[HSmom] 8:30 am: Some breeds lay as few as 50 eggs per year.
[HSmom] 8:30 am: Oh my! Do they sometimes get surprized with new chicks? Like
does a broody hen hide a nest?
[jewlzm] 8:31 am: you allow some to hatch though to keep for meet or other
laying ?
[jewlzm] 8:31 am: they havent yet.. but they have complained about finding
rotton ones
[HSmom] 8:33 am: I only have hens, no drakes. My meat birds this year were a
purchase of 'assorted ducklings' from the feed store.
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has left at 8:33 am
[HSmom] 8:34 am: How's it going Pauline?
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has entered at 8:34 am
[jewlzm] 8:34 am: grrrr
[HSmom] 8:34 am: WB jewlz!
[jewlzm] 8:35 am: I guess I reached my 20 question limit and it threw me out
[HSmom] 8:35 am: lol
[Joan] 8:35 am: i'm going to head out. Hopefully I can make it next week until
then bye bye
[jewlzm] 8:35 am: bye Joan!
[HSmom] 8:35 am: Bye Joan! Thanks for coming.
[HSmom] 8:35 am: I grilled you about rabbits Jewlz; you can ask all the
questions you want.
[pauline] 8:36 am: little crazy we found a rattle snake under front stairs sun.
killed it mon. but it was only a little one had a nub but no rattles yet so
bought cemetn yesterday to fill in flower beds on either side of stairs so there
is no more "homey" areas for them
[The Lounge]: has left at 8:36 am
[pauline] 8:36 am: have a good day Joan
[jewlzm] 8:37 am: snake kabobs!
[HSmom] 8:37 am: Wow! Oooh. Kabobs! Did you eat it?
[HSmom] 8:37 am: THat's too bad you're losing your flower beds though.
[pauline] 8:38 am: lol, no we shot it then decapitated it before placing in 2
garbage cans, if it had been just a blow snake or a garter it would have been
left to live
[jewlzm] 8:38 am: can I ask why you placed it in two different garbage cans?
[pauline] 8:38 am: moving the mint from the flower beds into pots/ wash tubs so
won't lose it all
[jewlzm] 8:38 am: or did I miss read that
[pauline] 8:39 am: just the way dh and i moved it and it's wiggling body stupid
thing kept moving even after being decapitated
[HSmom] 8:40 am: They do that.
[jewlzm] 8:40 am: all the wiggling things after heads chopped off today in Chat!
[HSmom] 8:40 am: For quite some time apparently. There's a thread about Snakes
under Country Homesteading.
[pauline] 8:42 am: i read it just was trying to keep it on the shovel long
enough to get it in the can was a bit tricky as we moved it,so body went to
first can we got to, head was being checkrd out by dh as he went to second can
[HSmom] 8:43 am: I bet that would be tricky!
[HSmom] 8:45 am: Any other livestock for the small home that we should discuss?
[HSmom] 8:45 am: Some folks keep bees, but I don't know much about that.
[pauline] 8:45 am: it was interesting to say the least just hope there are not
any more under there to find as i work
[HSmom] 8:47 am: Alrighty then. I guess I'll save this chat.
[jewlzm] 8:48 am: I dont know a thing about bee's.. and I dont keep goats either
[HSmom] 8:48 am: Me neither.
[HSmom] 8:49 am: Thank you jewlz for all your information on rabbits!
[jewlzm] 8:49 am: thank you for the duck info
[HSmom] 6:57 am: Good morning!
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has entered at 7:08 am
[HSmom] 7:08 am: Good morning!
[jewlzm] 7:08 am: Morning!
[HSmom] 7:09 am: I don't think UKGuy is really here - or if he is, he's not
speaking to me. lol
[jewlzm] 7:09 am: uhmm.. I dont see UKguy
[HSmom] 7:10 am: Oh. He shows on my little list of who's here: Me, you, him.
[HSmom] 7:10 am: Guess he really isn't.
[jewlzm] 7:10 am: lol .. its just me and you here
[HSmom] 7:10 am: That's all right. You awake enough to get started?
[jewlzm] 7:11 am: well Im awake..
[HSmom] 7:11 am: Here, have some coffee & a doughnut....
[jewlzm] 7:12 am: lol you just made my stomach growl
[HSmom] 7:12 am: lol
[HSmom] 7:13 am: Our topic today is Livestock on the Small Homestead.
[The Lounge]: Joan has entered at 7:13 am
[HSmom] 7:13 am: I know you have rabbits, and I'm sure you read about my duck
butchering last week.
[jewlzm] 7:13 am: welcome Joan
[HSmom] 7:13 am: Good morning Joan!
I actually beat you here today! [jewlzm] 7:14 am: Having an issue with the rabbits at the moment... they keep
eating their kits.. trying to figure out which one is going to go on the menu
first
[HSmom] 7:14 am: How do you have them housed?
[Joan] 7:14 am: I almost didn't come today. I was tryign to decide if I wanted
to
[jewlzm] 7:14 am: DH built a hutch to house their cages
[HSmom] 7:15 am: But together, separately?
[HSmom] 7:15 am: How come Joan?
[Joan] 7:16 am: I don't have livestock and all of my limited knolwdge comes from
my large animal call I took a couple years ago when I thought I wanted to be a
vet tech
[jewlzm] 7:16 am: lol yes.. together seperately
[HSmom] 7:17 am: Well, you're still welcome to hang out and learn Joan - that's
my hope for all our chats.
[HSmom] 7:17 am: So they are each in their own cages? Do they have a private
nest box? Any human handle the kits before the moms eat them?
[HSmom] 7:18 am: And what breed are they?
[jewlzm] 7:20 am: uhmm.. no.. not private nesting box. Never thought that would
be an issue.. but only one has given birth in it if that counts for much.
[jewlzm] 7:20 am: No people have handled the kits before mom eats them
[jewlzm] 7:20 am: and they are New Zealand whites
[HSmom] 7:21 am: There's time to work things out then. I haven't had rabbits
myself, but I've read a LOT on them. From what I hear, it's 'okay' if a
first-time mom eats one litter. But 2nd time around, she needs to figure it out.
[jewlzm] 7:21 am: Westie says to give her 3 shots before she becomes menu
material
[HSmom] 7:21 am: Here's a quote: "Historically thought of as a utility or
working rabbit, the New Zealand meat rabbit has been selected for hundreds and
hundreds of meat rabbit breeders. This is because they have good outgoing
personalities and are easy to work with. They don't tend to bite or struggle and
they don't get sick or have health problems nearly as often as other breeds."
[HSmom] 7:22 am: From the same website: "Californians make good pets because of
their friendly nature. Californians breed well and look after there own litters
well. Californians have a pleasant personality and normally enjoy some human
contact. "
[HSmom] 7:22 am: Westie probably knows what she's talking about.
[HSmom] 7:23 am: That website is: http://www.mybunnyfarm.com/ - it mentions pet
rabbits quite a bit, but does have info on meat rabbits.
[jewlzm] 7:24 am: Well I keep teasing my dd that her rabbit is grumpy because of
the name she gave it.. she named it Viper
[HSmom] 7:24 am: lol
[HSmom] 7:25 am: How long have you had your rabbits?
[jewlzm] 7:25 am: I used to raise rabbits back home before marriage and all that
came with it.. the rabbits we have now we have barely had a year so Im working
on re-learning all I thought I knew
[HSmom] 7:26 am: Did you have New Zealands back home too?
[Joan] 7:27 am: brb gotta go move my car
[jewlzm] 7:28 am: we had a few.. but this is the first time I have had to deal
with kit killers.. lol
[HSmom] 7:28 am: What do you think are the advantages & disadvantages of rabbits
on the small homestead?
[HSmom] 7:28 am: We'll still be here Joan.
[Joan] 7:31 am: back
[HSmom] 7:31 am: Jewlz...still typing?
[jewlzm] 7:31 am: well for starters you never know what attitude problem your
rabbits will have.. you dont know how well they will produce
[jewlzm] 7:32 am: lol thinking and typing
[HSmom] 7:32 am: Okay... just making sure you didn't wander off into
cyberspace... keep talking.
[jewlzm] 7:32 am: We started small.. one male two females.. so far we havent
seen the pros pass the cons
[jewlzm] 7:33 am: They may eventually. Its a learning experience because of
having to deal with things I dont ever remember dealing with before.
[jewlzm] 7:34 am: It could very well be a first time mom thing and that it will
get ironed out but you never know. I may have just been feeding my 3 meals for
the past several months .. time will tell
[HSmom] 7:34 am: I was thinking of some advantages, such as: rabbits are quieter
than any other livestock.
[HSmom] 7:34 am: They are small (compared to say: a steer).
[jewlzm] 7:35 am: With a family of 5 here .. knowing that rabbits CAN produce
well it is a relatively cheap starter
[jewlzm] 7:36 am: Well yes.. they are quieter.. and smell more pleasant if kept
up after
[HSmom] 7:36 am: Roughly what did it cost for your rabbits? What about all their
stuff (housing, food, etc)?
[jewlzm] 7:36 am: They dont take up as much room (which is really good ) I dont
have enough room for cows and pigs yet
[jewlzm] 7:37 am: They were about 10-15 dollars each.. their housing was really
easy to make and most of it we had on hand because DH works with metal. Food
runs about 10 bucks every 2 months
[HSmom] 7:38 am: Wow... that is pretty reasonable. Do you primarily feed
pellets?
[jewlzm] 7:38 am: We may get some laying hens come the end of June if we can
make sure the area we live in allows it
[jewlzm] 7:39 am: feed pellets and garden scraps some of the time..such as left
over lettuce from dinner salads or just excess from the garden (I have 30
lettuce plants growing and not on purpose either)
[HSmom] 7:40 am: Before we move on to poultry, I have a couple more rabbit links
to tuck in here: http://www.rudolphsrabbitranch.com/rrr.htm and
http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/basics.htm
[HSmom] 7:40 am: Do you give them alfalfa? Has it gone up in price, like hay &
straw have lately?
[jewlzm] 7:40 am: Well one thing I have learned is make sure of who you get your
rabbits from.. Make sure they are well taken care of before you buy.
[HSmom] 7:41 am: What would I look for - to be sure of that?
[jewlzm] 7:41 am: no.. no alfalfa
[jewlzm] 7:41 am: Well after I bought mine I had to make another trip out to get
their water bottles.. I walked in and there were dead rabbits in the cages..
[jewlzm] 7:42 am: I didnt think about it before but the rabbits wernt picked up
after and their water bottles were not clean
[HSmom] 7:42 am: Ew... and
... Do you think they cleaned up special for your first planned visit?
[jewlzm] 7:42 am: A week later the whole place was under quarentine
[HSmom] 7:43 am: It's too bad that there are people like that out there.
[jewlzm] 7:43 am: Could have been because they knew we were coming but they
didnt know about my second visit in advance
[HSmom] 7:43 am: That's stinky.
[jewlzm] 7:44 am: lol yes.. it was very stinky.. which I just assumed came with
rabbits in an enclosed space.
[HSmom] 7:44 am: I take it your rabbitry smells better. ... Are you using their
manure on your garden?
[jewlzm] 7:45 am: yes.. my rabbits are taken care of.. cleaned up after and
bottles changed out regularly
[jewlzm] 7:45 am: I use the manure in my garden .. saves on buying the steer
manure from the locals around here
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has left at 7:47 am
[jewlzm] 7:47 am: There were lots of lessons learned this time around with
rabbits.. The new place we get our supplies from take care of their rabbits much
better and they seem to have alot less issues with their rabbits and customers
complaining
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has left at 7:47 am
[HSmom] 7:47 am: oopsies! I had another question all typed out for her!
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has entered at 7:47 am
[jewlzm] 7:47 am: ouch
[HSmom] 7:47 am: There you are!
[jewlzm] 7:48 am: I got booted
[HSmom] 7:48 am: Okay... and butchering... did you help before when you had
rabbits? Can you compare it to poultry butchering? After my pin feather fiasco,
I'm thinking skinning sounds good.
[jewlzm] 7:49 am: I do killing skinning cleaning.. I have never shot a deer or
elk but I always help with the gutting skinning . Chickens on the other hand are
different. I always seem to end up with more feathers than actually came on the
bird lol
[HSmom] 7:49 am: lol
[HSmom] 7:50 am: I can relate to that!
[HSmom] 7:50 am: How long - would you estimate - that it takes you to butcher,
skin, gut & cut a rabbit?
[jewlzm] 7:50 am: my dd says that if we are going to have her bunny for dinner..
she gets to be the one to kill it..
[HSmom] 7:50 am: Wow! How old is she?
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: it shouldnt take you more than 30 minutes if you know what
your doing
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: she is 9
[HSmom] 7:51 am: Tough girl.
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: she helped with gutting and skinning the deer and the elk this
year
[jewlzm] 7:51 am: this past year..
[HSmom] 7:51 am: And if you don't know what you're doing - say your first one -
maybe an hour each?
[jewlzm] 7:52 am: well with proper instruction .. maybe an hour. Its seriously
not that hard.. Id say its harder to do a chicken because of all the feathers
[HSmom] 7:52 am: I have to say that gutting the poultry didn't bother me a bit.
Partially because I find it interesting to look at all the parts and pieces.
[jewlzm] 7:52 am: did you save the heart liver and gizzards?
[HSmom] 7:54 am: Hearts, liver & necks for the cat & dog (cooked). I didn't try
to separate the gizzards from the rest of the crop. I was a bit overwhelmed by
the whole process and really didn't care that much. I did five and the only help
I had was my 6 yo dd who held a long stick that held down their heads for
chopping.
[jewlzm] 7:55 am: hehehe hey.. thats pretty good help from a 6 year old... you
should be proud of yourself for doing 5 for fist time out
[jewlzm] 7:55 am: first
[The Lounge]: Joan has left at 7:56 am
[HSmom] 7:56 am: Had I done only one or two that day... there would now be an ad
somewhere reading: Free ducklings... lol It took me 7 hours - and it was
exhausting.
[The Lounge]: Joan has entered at 7:56 am
[HSmom] 7:57 am: WB Joan. Seems to be going around today. Hope I'm not next!
[jewlzm] 7:57 am: wb Joan
[Joan] 7:57 am: I tend to get kicked out if I don't say anything for awhile
[HSmom] 7:58 am: Well... little danger of that for me then! lol
[HSmom] 7:58 am: So let's talk about poultry....
[jewlzm] 7:58 am: I got kicked out while typing... so I guess if you dont sit
still or type to often you should be safe
[HSmom] 7:58 am: Jewlz you have some poultry experience?
[HSmom] 7:58 am: lol
[jewlzm] 7:59 am: Some.. I had to help grandma with her chickens.. never delt
with ducks though
[HSmom] 8:00 am: Not much difference in the essentials. Ducks require less
shelter. They better tolerate cool wet weather. They don't scratch, but they do
probe with their bills. They do not require swimming water, but do appreciate
it.
[HSmom] 8:00 am: Lemme grab the book...
[HSmom] 8:01 am: Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks by
[HSmom] 8:01 am: Dave Holderread compares ducks and chickens... other key points
are:
[HSmom] 8:04 am: Lower fence for ducks, more resisitant to parasites & diseases,
some breeds are better foragers than chickens, day olds cost about 25% more, lay
more pounds of eggs per year, slightly better feed conversion ratio for layers,
less mortality, produce eggs longer, slightly worse feed conversion ratio for
fryers/roasters.
[HSmom] 8:05 am: lol - according to the book, typical plucking time for a duck
is 3 - 15 minutes (compared to 2 -10 for a chicken). lol *sigh* I wish!
[jewlzm] 8:05 am: did it work out that way for you HSmom?
[HSmom] 8:06 am: Psh! 20 minutes was the very best time I had, and there were
still pinfeathers left. I'll get them before I cook it.
[HSmom] 8:06 am: It was pinfeather h - e - double hockey sticks!
[jewlzm] 8:06 am: hehehe
[jewlzm] 8:07 am: do ducks flop around like chickens after their heads come off?
[HSmom] 8:07 am: I've never had chickens, so I cannot personally attest to all
the comparisons, but one nice thing is that their bills are more gentle than a
chickens beak, so my kids haven't ever been hurt by a duck.
[HSmom] 8:08 am: Oh yes... I think everything flops - it has something to do
with severing the spinal cord, I think. I meant to look that up.
[jewlzm] 8:10 am: kiddos are having a real hard time dealing with the morning..
brb
[HSmom] 8:12 am: Okay.
[HSmom] 8:12 am: I found this: "In a chicken, the brain stem (which is the
lowest part of the brain) controls most of the reflexes. When someone beheads a
chicken, the brain stem is often left intact, allowing the animal to maintain
it's reflexes and continue to live. If the head was cut lower on the neck,
severing the brain stem, this would not happen. "
[jewlzm] 8:12 am: wow.. someone is definately having a bad morning.. I think 4
year old didnt get all his sleep out
[HSmom] 8:12 am: Also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken *gag*
[HSmom] 8:13 am: Mmm... sorry to hear that.
[jewlzm] 8:14 am: lol hmmm.. someone needed to hit that one a bit lower
[HSmom] 8:14 am: Or hit it again! Heavens!
[jewlzm] 8:14 am: Grandpa always made them flop around for the pure enjoyment of
the grandkids
[HSmom] 8:14 am: Bleh!! That's a bit much before breakfast!
[HSmom] 8:15 am: I wrapped mine up so they couldn't flop much. It bothered all
of us.
[HSmom] 8:16 am: The worst was that one head stayed on the chopping block
(instead of falling to the ground). I was busy swooping up the body and
suspending it over the bucket and the kids saw the body-less head's beak open
and close a few times.
[jewlzm] 8:16 am: hehehehehe
[jewlzm] 8:17 am: sorry I guess that would be kind of traumatic for a young
child.. I didnt mean to laugh
[jewlzm] 8:17 am: I just couldnt help myself
[HSmom] 8:17 am: BTW, I meant the "Mike" story was a bit much before breakfast -
not what your Grandpa did.
[HSmom] 8:18 am: It's okay to laugh. We laughed about a few things that day too.
[jewlzm] 8:18 am: thats alright.. I already had breakfast
Poor Mike![HSmom] 8:18 am: I haven't had breakfast!
[jewlzm] 8:19 am: I dont understand the still feeding a headless chicken thing
though
[jewlzm] 8:20 am: ok .. what does it take to care for your ducks? special feed
or anything?
[HSmom] 8:20 am: I guess he dripped in the esophagus.
[HSmom] 8:20 am: Chicken feed.
[HSmom] 8:20 am: It's a bit different for young ducks, but adults do find on a
layer mix or all-purpose mix.
[HSmom] 8:21 am: They have a nest box. In the winter they have a dog house for
shelter. And a lamp to keep them laying.
[jewlzm] 8:22 am: Other than the killing/cleaning.. not alot of time put in to
raising?
[HSmom] 8:22 am: No, chores take maybe 15 minutes a day.
[HSmom] 8:23 am: It was a little longer when we had the babies - those first two
or three weeks - maybe 30 - 40 minutes per day.
[HSmom] 8:23 am: They splash water around a lot which soils the bedding quickly
- cleaning up that is what took so long.
[jewlzm] 8:24 am: ok by chores you mean?
[jewlzm] 8:24 am: ahh.. gotcha
[The Lounge]: pauline has entered at 8:24 am
[jewlzm] 8:24 am: hiya pauline
[pauline] 8:24 am: hi sorry i a late
[jewlzm] 8:25 am: So do they lay eggs everyday? (sorry never delt with ducks)
[HSmom] 8:25 am: Feeding, changing water, and cleaning up. In the winter,
cleaning up means throwing down more clean straw over the poopy areas. In the
summer, it means tractoring them on the grass.
[HSmom] 8:25 am: Good morning pauline!
[jewlzm] 8:25 am: I dont know why but I figured they wouldnt lay but once a
season
[HSmom] 8:25 am: And gathering the eggs, of course.
[HSmom] 8:26 am: Indian runners & Khaki campbells lay - according to the book -
250 - 340 eggs per year.
[jewlzm] 8:26 am: (picturing an egg hunt)
[HSmom] 8:27 am: My old ladies are three years old. For May I got...77 eggs -
about 2.5 per day, from three hens.
[HSmom] 8:28 am: But somebody's starting to moult (again!) so it'll slow down
(again!). As they age, they are moulting mroe an more often.
[HSmom] 8:29 am: We don't have to hunt for the eggs silly. They lay in the nest
box.
[jewlzm] 8:30 am: My sister in law does free range chickens. her and her kids do
have an egg hunt pretty much every day.. LOL
[HSmom] 8:30 am: Some breeds lay as few as 50 eggs per year.
[HSmom] 8:30 am: Oh my! Do they sometimes get surprized with new chicks? Like
does a broody hen hide a nest?
[jewlzm] 8:31 am: you allow some to hatch though to keep for meet or other
laying ?
[jewlzm] 8:31 am: they havent yet.. but they have complained about finding
rotton ones
[HSmom] 8:33 am: I only have hens, no drakes. My meat birds this year were a
purchase of 'assorted ducklings' from the feed store.
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has left at 8:33 am
[HSmom] 8:34 am: How's it going Pauline?
[The Lounge]: jewlzm has entered at 8:34 am
[jewlzm] 8:34 am: grrrr
[HSmom] 8:34 am: WB jewlz!
[jewlzm] 8:35 am: I guess I reached my 20 question limit and it threw me out
[HSmom] 8:35 am: lol
[Joan] 8:35 am: i'm going to head out. Hopefully I can make it next week until
then bye bye
[jewlzm] 8:35 am: bye Joan!
[HSmom] 8:35 am: Bye Joan! Thanks for coming.
[HSmom] 8:35 am: I grilled you about rabbits Jewlz; you can ask all the
questions you want.
[pauline] 8:36 am: little crazy we found a rattle snake under front stairs sun.
killed it mon. but it was only a little one had a nub but no rattles yet so
bought cemetn yesterday to fill in flower beds on either side of stairs so there
is no more "homey" areas for them
[The Lounge]: has left at 8:36 am
[pauline] 8:36 am: have a good day Joan
[jewlzm] 8:37 am: snake kabobs!
[HSmom] 8:37 am: Wow! Oooh. Kabobs! Did you eat it?
[HSmom] 8:37 am: THat's too bad you're losing your flower beds though.
[pauline] 8:38 am: lol, no we shot it then decapitated it before placing in 2
garbage cans, if it had been just a blow snake or a garter it would have been
left to live
[jewlzm] 8:38 am: can I ask why you placed it in two different garbage cans?
[pauline] 8:38 am: moving the mint from the flower beds into pots/ wash tubs so
won't lose it all
[jewlzm] 8:38 am: or did I miss read that
[pauline] 8:39 am: just the way dh and i moved it and it's wiggling body stupid
thing kept moving even after being decapitated
[HSmom] 8:40 am: They do that.
[jewlzm] 8:40 am: all the wiggling things after heads chopped off today in Chat!
[HSmom] 8:40 am: For quite some time apparently. There's a thread about Snakes
under Country Homesteading.
[pauline] 8:42 am: i read it just was trying to keep it on the shovel long
enough to get it in the can was a bit tricky as we moved it,so body went to
first can we got to, head was being checkrd out by dh as he went to second can
[HSmom] 8:43 am: I bet that would be tricky!
[HSmom] 8:45 am: Any other livestock for the small home that we should discuss?
[HSmom] 8:45 am: Some folks keep bees, but I don't know much about that.
[pauline] 8:45 am: it was interesting to say the least just hope there are not
any more under there to find as i work
[HSmom] 8:47 am: Alrighty then. I guess I'll save this chat.
[jewlzm] 8:48 am: I dont know a thing about bee's.. and I dont keep goats either
[HSmom] 8:48 am: Me neither.
[HSmom] 8:49 am: Thank you jewlz for all your information on rabbits!
[jewlzm] 8:49 am: thank you for the duck info
Trying not to keep all my eggs in one basket....
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