163 replies to this topic

[Amishway Homesteaders]

Saves room if the whole camp can use AH's gardening plow.... LOL


MtRider

We were thinking about just this topic...................

When we get to where ever we are going Lori and I where thinking of opening a General Store / Rental Center. Seeing it looks like we have a lot of the things needed to start out a 'new life'. Being there is no Walmarts? come the the HOMESTEAD GENERAL STORE for all your needs..

By the way THAT plow is for rent so sign up early ! Only $100.00 a hour and you have to have your own horse. LOL
no for the most part we will barter and help our neighbors! sillt people.

[Mother]

OH Excellent Q. Like you, I fear leaving something necessary behind and bringing along something that we could do without.

I had a thought for sterilizing. Can the canner be used for that? I believe some canners come in autoclave capacity but I'm not positive about the temps and all.

Yesterday I was talking with friends about this thread and they asked me what "Modern" items I would be bringing along instead of my antique items and that us all stop and think. Here is a partial list:

Insulated items like Thinsulate (boots, gloves, jackets, etc) and insulated material
Silver backed blankets to reflect heat
Modern tent and sleeping bags (like Quilty's)
Insulated cooker (mine uses thinsulate inside and is SS outside with two SS pans)
Rubber ponchos and rain gear (Motorcycle gear is great)
Rubber boots and insulated rubber ones
Several sand points for driven wells with various pipe (We had that thought too Q)
Hand well pump with extra leathers (we have two sizes now)
Would use modern light weight material for wagon cover and liner (tent type material for use later as living quarters until we get the cabin built)
Tent screening to be used for dehydrator trays later
Opaque and clear Plexiglas for windows and for making solar dehydrators and heaters
( would most likely pack inside the wagons along the sides) (I'll barter some to AH for his store LOL)
Down jacket (a bit bulky but WARM and has durable material)
Few more books (basic weaving/spinning/crochet/macramé/knitting/etc for one and make your own patterns for another.)
Two very small butane stoves for rainy days on the trail (with extra butane. Light weight and disposable later)

A concern was brought up yesterday as well. What would we do if the Library Wagon ran into difficulties like going over a cliff or worse, getting soaked in a river. Some absolutely necessary books might be duplicated and dispersed among various wagons.

I also had some questions answered about using a bull in place of an oxen. (my friends are preppers and farm with horses and etc) Bulls are too unpredictable to use in that way as a normal rule but cows could be used as oxen (and often were) but they would be best to be 'dry' cows and either bred during the trip with a bull brought along or after arriving. He says that there will be some difficulty keeping the bull from the cows while they are 'working' so be prepared to handle that via some good cow ponies. It would most likely mean that we wouldn't have to worry about the bull straying away though as he would want to stay near his "girls".

I'm sure there are more but now I'm off to figure out clothing, personals, and etc. (That is IF I have any room left for more)

[quiltys41]

I think I would skip using the bulls too Mother for the same reason. They are so unpredictable and can turn bad so fast. Think we would rather stick with the oxen also. And thanks, was glad to know I wasn't too far off on what I was packing. I forgot the well head and the leathers! Duh! Would have had to cap it off and run up to AH's store lol.

It isn't just the library wagon Mother...what if something happened to the medical wagon, or your wagon? It's risky with any one of them. So I wouldn't mind putting my medical things in different wagons just in case. And that still hubby has is an old autoclave to switching it back to intended use is no problem if we need a sterilezer. Got it covered!

Modern stuff vs. old stuff I hadn't even tought of like that. Since we have such a mix of the two here that we use daily of both. Like the cast iron cookware. I don't use anything else but that most times. So to think of it as old timey stuff? Nope, seems modern to me LOL. Yeah that tent in a bag thingy uses all the newer light weight materials that is water proof and rated to like -20 degrees. I don't think I would want to use an old time canvas tent, but that little wood stove thing is meant for that, so we would stay warm. But wow, could you imagine having to pack and put up, then take down and pack again a big old heavy canvas tent of at least 14x18?

I liked Mothers idea of going back over the list and deleting things we could make when we got there. That's what got me thinking about not taking the table and chairs from the kitchen. They are solid oak and pretty heavy. So, I thought it might be better to have the hubby make that after we get where ever it is we are going here. Man has he got a lot of work to do then! Build the house, drill the well, make the furniture, plumb the house, etc...guess I am going to have to lend a hand as much as possible after I get the garden planted!

Q

Edited by quiltys41, 26 October 2009 - 06:13 PM.

[Mt_Rider]

A concern was brought up yesterday as well. What would we do if the Library Wagon ran into difficulties like going over a cliff or worse, getting soaked in a river. Some absolutely necessary books might be duplicated and dispersed among various wagons.

So...Our Special Wagons might be a case of all your eggs in one basket...eggs being fragile, and all. Well, back to the old drawing board. LOL Lets keep the Special wagons [hope the water one doesn't break down!] and yet, disperse some of the basic, vital things. ...Seee, try to edit down our lists and now we're talking duplication. ....lol

Do you think we are very used to accessibility and would be rather shocked if we had to arrive with half our stuff due to a river accident or some such? I would. Many pioneers traveled to areas that were trading zones and they could buy some things later. But some ended up in the booonies and it would be years before they'd even get on a trader-with-mule route.

Good thot on the well drivers. A mountain gal like myself wouldn't think of that due to our geography. It's a LOONG way down to our water....thru granite.

Homesteader General Store: and barter/rent major equipment. That's the beginning of a civilization. Specialization. Hope we have a population base big & diverse enough to support specialization. It improves life so much! ...did you say your garden plow is pulled by a horse? LOL I was thinking of those human-powered big wheel ones that have so tempted me in Lehmans'.


Modern Stuff : communications like 2-way radios, even CB's would work too. Anyone bringing a typewriter...manual one? [blackberry/soot ink?] Solar-collecting lights. Greenhouse [UV stable & cold flexible...unlike one I'm dealing with IRL] plastic. Definitely Thinsulate. And GOOD footwear. Gloves! Folder knives and multitools. Weather forecasting equipment...tho that isn't necessarily modern. [barometer, thermometer,etc]

The storage things like barrels, boxes, and bags are all strong and light weight in our modern times. [course, theirs were often home-made] I'm counting on this making up some of the weight difference.


MtRider [.....packing snowshoes, snow shovels, snow goggles, etc...can you tell our Mts are getting early winter?]

Edited by Mt_Rider, 26 October 2009 - 09:20 PM.

[Amishway Homesteaders]

Homesteader General Store: and barter/rent major equipment. That's the beginning of a civilization. Specialization. Hope we have a population base big & diverse enough to support specialization. It improves life so much! ...did you say your garden plow is pulled by a horse? LOL I was thinking of those human-powered big wheel ones that have so tempted me in Lehmans'.



The storage things like barrels, boxes, and bags are all strong and light weight in our modern times. [course, theirs were often home-made] I'm counting on this making up some of the weight difference.

Michael has both kinds of plows (2 1-horse plow and 3 hand push/pull plows)and is taking 1 of each plus all the old time garden tools.

Hey if you pack in totes.................... they float! something they didn't have back in the day so 'if' you get dumped in the river you may be able to save some things.

[Mother]

Another thought for protecting our books, Vacuum sealing them in plastic. Or at least sealing them, perhaps with a bit of air in the bag as then the book might float if it was dumped???

Okay, some rambling to get us thinking:::

It's absolutely amazing how much we have become dependent on "modern" things in our life. Like Quilty and AH and I'm sure a lot of you, we use a ton of antique things here in our every day life and always have as I love those every day pioneer items. Cast iron pans, hand operated utensils, handsaws and tools, Long skirts and warm shawls. But as I contemplate packing for this trip I realize more and more an appreciation for our modern conveniences, especially the plastic that is so polluting to our world.



This ‘scene’ is a great way to feel our way through the transition back to a simpler way of life. (I thought) I have lived for months without electricity and 'modern' conveniences of running hot and cold water at different times in my life. I have lived for weeks in a covered wagon and tent with only tools and equipment from the past. I have utilized those tools of the past in my daily life for well over forty years but the thought of doing so without even the relative comfort of knowing that I could get in my car (or even my horse and buggy) to run to town to pick up whatever was needed (food, feed for animals, parts, or even water)at least a couple times a year was daunting. Even more so was the thought that I would not be able to go to the hospital if I or a loved one were seriously in need. This would be leaving civilization to go to the wilderness to build a different, hopefully better, 'civilization'.



We have all been thinking of Mt.Riders Unreality scenes with a mind to being able to use all that we already have or to being close enough to civilization that we can just pick up the pieces of a fallen society and rebuild it again. This, leaving behind all the conveniences except for what we can carry with us or build once there, is a whole other look at survival. It beats being thrown into a ditch, beaten, bare and in the cold as one of our Edge scenes gave us, but it’s not a whole lot better.



In this scene we are not even given an idea of where we are going except that it is a seasonal area and perhaps ideal for self-sufficiency. No idea of what we might face. No idea of what dangers are there. No idea if we might have to face an already hostile population that does not want us there. No idea if we might be able to trade our own products with others for things we can’t produce ourselves. No clue as to what sort of society we plan to build just that it’s going to be better. This is exactly what the people who followed Moses, the Colonists, and Pilgrims, and Pioneer settlers had to face when they left their homes to build a better world. This is why people choose to stay and live in misery. It is extremely difficult to leave something you know and go off into the unknown. Only the very brave or the very dedicated, the foolish, or the very desperate do that.



Very few people have joined us on this venture compared to other scenarios that have been played here on Mrs. S. Perhaps it’s because they haven’t found it here tucked away in the PL. I wonder though if perhaps this one was too difficult to contemplate for some.



I KNEW it would be fun. I’ve written about it in books and stories and articles numerous times in the past forty years. I eagerly embraced the task of sorting through what I personally would and wouldn’t take. Then I started to seriously think about the life I knew we would be going into if we truly followed this path and I began to see the difficulties I didn’t see in the past (when I was younger), especially for those of us who are handicapped or older or ill. I am still loving the challenge of it but now the seriousness of this possibility has me looking at what life might be like if we actually DID this. Because I have been a life long student of alternate and pioneer lifestyles I can see where this might lead. Seeing where it might lead, as a community not an individual, makes a big difference in what we bring along.


Stephanie hit on the subject of teaching our young people in the future. What WOULD we teach them if we want their lives to be different, better, than what we are leaving? Do we teach them how to continue to make plastic? Do we teach them a better way to govern people? Do we want them to learn to be 'civilized' or are we going to teach them to survive and thrive in the wilderness with no thought of moving beyond that? If you had no access to 'manufacturing' as we know it now, what would you need to bring along from the past to ensure a better future? That is a question that haunts me now. I would have my grandkids to think about. What about you?

[Mt_Rider]

This ‘scene’ is a great way to feel our way through the transition back to a simpler way of life.

Yeah, Mother. That's how I've been thinking about it. I have a quick bug-out list. I have a detailed list to take out if wildfire threatens. I've been wanting to have a list to refer to [when the chaos of the crisis does not induce clear thinking] for if the leaving was permanent and the destination was primitive. This is helping me construct that list. Remember categories that I might not think of on my own. Who knows if migration becomes necessary. But I want to have a LIST. [obsessed with lists...lol]


Yeah, it does get serious if one REALLY had to do this....re-invent the wheel. Or at least have to have AH hammer it outta scrap metal. Would we really want to scrap the modern industries if it were our choice? Doubt it. Especially those of us who are old/ill/have tiny ones in our care. SO much of our modern society is marvelous. ....but fortunately, of course, it isn't our choice. Unless someone really goes up to the wilds of Alaska interior or something. ....now in my younger years..... ...mebbe.


Anyway, this certainly has given me a greater appreciation and respect for those pioneer forefathers and mothers who DID live this out. Without plastics and electronics. Tough and determined and blessed.

MtRider .. [better get finished packing or AH will be starting off without us.... ...and who has herding dogs to keep the sheep/goats/etc together on this trail? ]

[CrabGrassAcres]

The Project Gutenberg EBook of The Oregon Trail, by Francis Parkman, Jr
http://www.gutenberg...15-h/1015-h.htm

Y'all might find this interesting.

I haven't started packing yet. Had to have a new computer. LOL

[CrabGrassAcres]

Participants: Crabby and dear daughter



Skills: Animal care, gardening, herbal lore, midwifery, rough carpentry, nursing, canning, drying food, nutrition, butchering animals, hatching birds and raising them, teaching, music, sewing, knitting, crochet, weaving, quilting, painting.




Animals
5 does, 1 buck (dairy goats, my buck is an Alpine)
4 Great Pyrenees LGDs
Trio of geese
Trio of turkeys
6 chicken hens and 2 roosters
Trio of guineas
Trio of ducks
Pair of piglets?

The goats can walk, as can the dogs. The birds will have to go in crates.

For the animals, I'll need some buckets and feed pans. About 400# of grains for animals.

My wagon will be pulled by a pair of oxen.

Kitchen:

Wonder Jr Grain Mill

Big Berkey water filter and extra candles.

Cast iron meat grinder
Cast iron spider, cast iron dutch oven on legs with flat lid for baking, cast iron pot (5 gallons) for washing and making soap or whatever you need a big pot for. (I don’t own these, but hope to.) I do have several large cast iron skillets.
6 tin plates, 6 spoons, 6 forks, 6 knives, 6 tin cups

Set of nesting stainless steel pots with lids
Large metal bowl for making bread.
Cast iron bread pans, 4.
Long handled metal spoon, spatula, tongs, ladle.
Set of kitchen knives and sharpener.
Folding table and 2 folding chairs.

All American Pressure canner

Extra lids, rings and jars.

Stainless steel coffee pot

Stainless steel kettle

Food:

Grains

Beans

Flour

Sugar

Salt

Dried veggies and fruits

Spices

Lard

Dried meat

Hard Tack

Portable soup

Chocolate

Coffee beans

Tea

Powdered Milk

Water




Health Sanitation:
5 pounds activated charcoal

assortment of herbs

Several large bottles of benedryl, Tylenol, aspirin, motrin, multi vitamins, vitamin c, vitamin d, etc.

Several gallon jugs of cod liver oil.

Collection of fish antibiotics

First aid trunk (not going to list contents, but it is large and comprehensive.)

Soap, alcohol, betadine, vinegar, turpentine.

Pine salve.

Cayenne pepper.



Laundry
Two galvanized tin washtubs, scrub board and hand operated wringer.

Gardening:
Shovel, hoe head, rake head, plow head.
Seeds. (Including fruit tree seeds.)

Clothing:
In a chest, 2 pairs sturdy shoes each and 2 pairs stout boots each. Extra soles and shoe nails and leather working tools.
Socks, 12 pair each. 6 pair cotton and 6 pair wool.
6 skirts each, 3 gingham or muslin and 3 wool
6 shirtwaists each, 3 summer and 3 winter
1 light coat and 1 heavy coat each
2 warm shawls each
1 raincoat each (oil cloth)

2 warm sweaters each
2 good sunbonnets each
1 good Sunday hat each
12 pairs long legged underdrawers each
2 sets wool longjohns each
6 sturdy bras each (I ain't wearing no corsets and that's that!)
2 summer and 2 winter petticoats each
2 linen nightgowns and 2 wool nightgowns each
2 night caps each
2 pairs wool mittens each
2 pairs work gloves each
2 pairs mens denim overalls each (cause sometimes a skirt just ain't gonna do)

Several bolts of material. Thread, yarn, buttons, pins, needles.






Tools:
Treadle sewing machine (I have a nice one and it will be really good to have.)

Ax, hammers, hand saws, files, planes, splitting wedge, drill brace and bits, chisels, screwdrivers, cat’s claw, crow bar, pliers, bolt cutters,

Metal stove pipe for the clay stove I’m making when I get “there”. Iron griddle for the top of my stove.

Screws, nails, nuts and bolts and washers.

Rope. Lots of rope.

Tie wire, different gauges.





Lighting:
6 lanterns, 6 Aladdins, extra wicks, mantles, chimneys and lamp oil. 50 pounds candle wax. Wick thread.




Shelter:
Tarps, (I need a tent, maybe a canvas wall tent)

All my warm blankets and quilts.

Canvas ground cloth

2 folding cots




Protection and hunting:
12 gauge shotgun

22 lr rifle

.303 British Enfield rifle

.22 lr hand gun

.38 special snub nose revolver

Ammo for above and reloading supplies and equipment.




Books:
Bible, song books, concordance, Bible dictionary, as many of my extensive collection of how too books as possible.

Edited by CrabGrassAcres, 27 October 2009 - 09:58 PM.

[firegirl969]

OK, I think I am ready to get packed for the journey ahead. I get 2 wagons (or is it 3) as DH and I need them to haul our kids and stuff in.

People: DH and I, 2 DS, 3 DD
We choose oxen to pull our wagons.

Animals: 2 horses, one we will pack with, DD and I will take turns riding the other. 2 nubian does(don't have these yet, but a girl down the road has extras I can buy for the trip) and 1 buck, 2 does and 1 buck rabbit in a cage tied to the side of one wagon. 3 banty hens and 1 rooster in a cage tied to the side of one wagon to hatch chicks with. A cage on the other wagon with 6 hens and 1 rooster that lay large eggs. The gilt pig and steer (will butcher him after arriving west and fatten him back up some). Our Brittney Spaniel, our german sheppard mix (both good watchdogs, and my dashhound (sp) just cause she is part of the family.

Foods: 8 boxes of canned veggies, fruits, jams, jellies (boxes stuffed with wash cloths and dish rags, jars can be reused to can in when we get the garden going), 6 bags of vacumn-pkged coffee (so that we can all get along with DH in the mornings), sugar, wheat berries, corn meal, rice, black-eyed peas, bullion cubes, pinto beans, cocoa powder, lemon juice, yeast, baking soda, baking powder, salt, pepper, tea bags, barley, assortment of open-pollinated seeds, 2 cases of peanut butter to eat on the trail.

Clothing: 7 outfits each, extra jackets, boots/shoes, sewing supplies.

Medical: paramedic jump bag stocked with extra bandages and OTC meds, herbal healing book, herb seeds to start new herbal garden when we get there. (will add some mole-skin to barter to all of you with the blisters on the feet).

Cooking: rack for fire, canner stuffed with extra lids, sure-jell, 2 cast-iron frying pans, 3 pots, 2 mixing bowls, 2 bread pans, SS stock pot, metal pie pans to eat out of, forks, knives, a couple of spoons, coffee perculator.

Other: DH will wear his police issue pistol and boot holster with spare pistol. Horse will carry rifle, each wagon will also have a rifle and/or shotgun. Ammo will be sealed in a 5-gallon bucket. 2 oil lanterns, extra wicks, 4 gallons of lamp oil, solar/hand crank flashlight/radio, 2 favorite cookbooks, Bible, Baptist Hymnal, goat hoof clippers, milking pail, udder cleaning and sanitizing soap, plastic tote with cross-stitch fabric, needles, floss, booklets, hoe, post-hole diggers, shovel, hand meat grinder, hand grinder for grains, plunger to wash clothes with, wash tub, dazey butter churn, great-grandma's manual coffee grinder, hand-cranked food chopper, solar shower, barrel of water for drinking, 3 gallons of bleach, hand-pump, we plan to tie some 1 1/4" pvc pipe to the inside top of one of the wagons with a can of blue glue and connectors in a gallon zip-loc baggie. DH's mandolin. A plastic tote filled with Angel-soft TP, toothbrushes, soap, toothpaste. Both wagons will be lined in the bottom with pillows and quilts/comforters/sleeping bags. (The horse saddle bags will carry fishing hooks, line, and weights, matches vacumn-sealed in a plastic bag, extra wicks for lanterns, 4 rolls of duct tape) and a rolled sleeping bag. The pack horse will carry 4 rolled tarps, extra socks, underwear, clothespins and roll of sturdy rope.

We have a small pot-bellied stove, so if it will fit in one of the wagons, and will not overload it, we plan to carry it for the new house.

Skills we bring to the wagontrain: DH: security, firefighter, EMT, former well driller, farmer, strong back, carpenter, mandolin player, hunting/fishing. Me: paramedic, firefighter, soapmaking, animal husbandtry, sewing, cross-stitching, milking, cooking from scratch, canning, hunting/fishing.

Edited by firegirl969, 27 October 2009 - 08:55 PM.

[Annarchy]

Quiltys41, CGA, and firegirl969 are coming along! Nice to have you on our trip.

Mother, you are sooo right.

DH taught me to backpack for weeks at a time when we first met. When he said camping, I thought KOA, not hiking up a mountain for three days, then, staying for weeks, with only the things we could carry on our back. Needless to say, my first trip was memorable. After the first day, carrying the waterproof canvas tent and most of the food supplies plus what I had brought for me, I started re-evaluating what I had choosen to bring... much of it got stashed along the trail to relieve the weight I was carrying. He made me map it and pick it all back up on the way back.... His motto: "Leave it so no one knows you were ever there."

I've added a few things like my dive gear bag, which weight 7 lbs., who knows, maybe I can find where the fish are hiding... lol
Binoculars & my telescope.

Oh, since AH is running the general store, we'll run the armory. Need ammo?

I've taken Stephanie's suggestions, and added some Christian study material to the library wagon, and transferred only 8 5 gal jugs of water to the water wagon... 320 lbs. if it can handle it. However, we are bringing the water purifier in case we come across water to refill what has been used.

My dear MIL and I were discussing it and she wanted me to let you all know, she would love to come, but is a wee bit old for the trip. She said however, that she would take some of the things I am leaving and trade for miscellaneous items like a straight razor and strap, so DH could shave. She really got into it and began asking me if I had this... or that.... or have I thought of this... or that.... . She also asked me to keep her updated on our progress.

I've got most of my wagon packed, added miscellaneous items, like Sterno for the trip.

Time to double check some things in my wagon.....

[CrabGrassAcres]

.Firegirl, check with Stephanie, I think she has a Nubian buck. I'm bringing an Alpine buck, so you probably don't need a buck, just does.

[CrabGrassAcres]

Arby, if you want, you can take my treadle sewing machine. It has all kinds of attachments and does lots of neat stuff. I don't sew much any more, so I could just come visit when I want to sew something. I don't think you'd ever be able to use yours again. I also have some extra grains you can take on your wagon.

[Stephanie]

Trish, I like the way you think!

My buck is a Mini Nubian, which is the direction I'm wanting to go and of course he'll be coming along. His name is Peter Pan.

As to the education questions, if I could only have one printed book for teaching, it would be the Bible. It is full of history, many forms of literature, poetry, perfect for memorization and even measurements/math/weather/health/etc...

My second choice would be the McGuffy Readers that I have mentioned before, they would suffice for reading, spelling and some grammar for any age if necessary.

Another important part of education is music, I'd be bringing any types of drums, guitars, violins, flutes, lap harps, etc... that I could lay my hands on. Music is such an important part our life and culture, I'd want to take as much as possible with me.

Someone asked about any herding dogs, I'll have my border collie/sheltie mix that handles our small herd of goats. Unfortunately, in this case, she can't reproduced more of her kind.

Our little Jack Russell makes good pest control...digging after rats and such. And Aslan is an LGD of course, although still a puppy, he has already alerted us to a couple of perceived threats.

We now have a cat, wandered up over a week ago and I'll be glad to have him along, he seems to have a strong hunting instinct.

I'm glad we'll have three wagons, we're going to need it! I've been thinking about the glass jars of home canned foods, and how to package them safely. I think I'll wrap them in towels, sheets and clothing that we're taking for extras. Not only will they protect my fragile items, they'll be used later as needed.

One thing that I've decided I would invest in monetarily, before such a trip (and it would be a large investment) is good quality boots for the nine of us, plus a couple of extras as their feet keep growing constantly. My 13 year old son is growing out of Mens size 13.

Since we have multiple wagons, I'm going to take two teams of horses and one team of oxen. They both have their advantages, so I'll take both.

I've decided against the generator. It is extremely heavy and trying to take gasoline along would be precarious and eat up additional needed space...plus, eventually we'd run out of room.

I WILL be taking a supply of those nice collapsible, canvas, camping chairs. How lovely to be able to sit down and be comfortable after a long day of traveling.

Okay...that's a few updates...back to real life!

[CrabGrassAcres]

I'm not sure about taking canning jars of food. Maybe I should try to dry the contents?

I have 20 good metal barrels with tight lids. I think I'll pack most of my stuff in those.

If anybody needs additional poultry, I have more than I can take with me. I'd be glad to have some of you folks take breeding groups of chickens, turkeys, geese and ducks. The birds would be yours so you'd need to provide feed and such.

I think I should take 2 yolk of oxen. I want a couple of saddle horses too. If I'm going to live primative, I should get over being afraid to ride.

Anybody taking cows should just have them bred first. Some are sure to have bull calves and that would take care of breeding later.

I might try to get a couple of Angora goats too, before we leave.

[Mother]

CGA, I have promise of bred organic jersey cows and a young bull calf. (actually I've had that offer in real life) The calf will be easier to handle than an older bull and will be plenty big enough to breed with when needed next year.

I would take some of the poultry with us and thank you for the offer. We lost a lot of ours to raccoon when we were gone earlier this year. I'll add extra grain to our supplies.

I am in the process of trying to figure out how to repack the wagon to get all in that I'd like to take. DD and her family of one almost 8 year old boy, a married daughter and a married son, will be coming along with us. (we are actually having a gathering Sat. night to brainstorm just for fun) Not sure about the rest of the family yet but I expect them to come as well.

About the dogs. (One actual diary I read says they killed all the dogs in the wagon train as they were going feral or were afraid they would. I think it was here http://www.oregonpio...om/1842trip.htm ) Most livestock are herded by the people walking or on horseback so a good cutting pony might be handy. Anyone got one? I like the idea of herd dogs as we've always had Border Collies and shepherds. We don't have one now but I think I know where I can buy a trained one if I can get it before we have to leave. One would help but probably wouldn't be enough with all the livestock we're taking with us collectively. Our jerseys will be tied behind a wagon as we travel and allowed to graze at night when the animals aren't confined to the circle inside the wagon at night.

(Wagons were often circled at night with the tongue of one wagon laying on the back wheel of the wagon in front of them and all animals were confined inside that circle if it was big enough and the animals might be in danger. They grazed from stopping time to dark and again in the morning before getting on the trail. I'm not looking forward to sharing my cooking fire with a bunch of animals so hopefully they can be confined to one side, which they usually were according to some diaries.)

Also, did you know that wagons rotate their spot every day with the lead wagon one day taking the last spot the following day. That way no one had to eat dust or mud the whole way. Lots of things I'm sure we will learn on the trail.

[CrabGrassAcres]

Oh good, I was hoping some more children and young adults would be coming!

I'm adding rolls of window screening and cage wire and some panes of window glass.

[firegirl969]

CrabGrass,

Thanks for the offer of using your buck. That will save us the expense now of one. I have extra chickens as well, so if anyone else needs a cage of hens and a rooster, just let me know, and I will be glad to share. I am considering what to do about a water filter. We don't currently have one, but I thought today that my family will need one and extra filters for the trip.

[Mt_Rider]

MtRider rushes in where others from Wagons Ho are gathered ...a meeting about the livestock is in progress.....


Folks, I'm afraid I have an announcement that is worrisome. We're gonna have to speed things up. I know we've been waiting for the weather to be a bit warmer...spring is nearly here. But with all the various crisis that have happened in the past months, I believe our situation is getting risky if we stay much longer.

Now I know we've all got last minute packing [sheeeesh, I know I do] and last minute decisions like how many and which animals to bring. These are VERY important decisions. I doubt any of us realizes how important those choices will be to us later. So I don't mean to interrupt this meeting at all......


But if you are getting animals, get them now....this weekend. I have reason to think that we should push our leaving date up to this coming Monday. We might still have a late snowstorm. But since it's the last week of March, we should be OK. If we run into weather, we'll just have to wait it out and continue on after it clears. That MIGHT mean it will take a bit longer on the trail than our estimate of 60 days.

I do not trust the crowds that have been able to view our preparations. They've been jeering at us but they've also seen some of what we pack...tho we've all tried to prevent that. Lately you know it's getting dangerous to even go to shop in groups of less than four or five. Violence is getting worse daily, it seems. People are getting scared and desperate. They are ....well, waking up. We can't wait for better road and traveling weather.

In short, it's time to leave. Hurry and get the final packing done. Gather at the meeting place on Sunday nite. We'll be sleeping in the wagons with the livestock here. We leave at dawn....or rather somewhat before dawn on Monday. We *will* post guards. In fact I suggest that you post guards at your own sites starting from tonite. Let's not take any chances at the last minute.


There will likely be a few more joining us along our route. I've told them we'll be happy to see them.


Oh, and CGA? I wouldn't mind a set of geese {do you have any African Grays?} .....and mebbe turkeys too. Gotta add fencing wire to my stack of things to pack....enough to lock them up safe at nite. Just how BIG a cage is needed for a turkey? Or can they be herded? Do you have any guineas? Mebbe I'd want them instead of the turkeys?....and I have to run down and get the rabbits...should have done that earlier.... Got the cages ready under the wagon for shade.


MtRider [...Hard Times...things are getting tense...be glad when we're a ways out on the trail and only dealing with wheels stuck in mud and burned food and mosquitoes and.... ]

Edited by Mt_Rider, 28 October 2009 - 11:34 PM.

[CrabGrassAcres]

Oh my, you are hurrying us, aren't you!

I'm bringing the lavender guineas. I have 5 so I can bring all of them. 3 females and 2 males.

I don't have any African Greys. Would you like the trio of Cotton Patch? Or perhaps a trio of Embdens or American Buffs?

Turkeys can indeed be herded, as can geese and ducks. Probably wouldn't want to be held back to a goose or duck pace though. A dog crate is a good size, one of the big wire ones.

I won't have time to dry all my meat if we are leaving so soon. Maybe I'll have to split the jars between everybody and we'll just eat them as we go.