42 replies to this topic

[Mt_Rider]

Without Warning - Hoarding RAIDS - Locust Squads


OK, so just as our collective blood pressure numbers might be settling down to a normal range.... I'll kick over the hornet's nest.

{Pardon any errors but my typing is running off the visible area -more malfunctions for me thihis morning. I end up typing UNDERNEATH the smilies on the right side of the page. REally, I can see the coursor run along with the smilies options but can't see what I'm typing. }

Anyway, here's the UNreality (?) Scenario:

Times have been tough for a while. Inflation is up. Prices on basics are PAINFUL. Benefit chickes from government and private sources are either reduced or getting sporatic in delivery. Some people think that the 'rich' should share so that we can get thru this mess and come out on the utopia that surely awaits on the other side.

Of COURSE someone gets the bright idea that we should all just share our food and other basic supplies ...just until time improve, of course. And afterall, it's totally MEAN-SPIRITED to HOARD things when other folks don't have any..RIGHT?


So of Locust Squads swarm over this land. Yeah, cute name, huh? Their job is to reapportion food and other needed goods. They are enforcing the 'hoarding laws'. No matter that officially diagnosed 'hoarding' [stacking up newspapers till one can't see out the windows or keeping 101 Dalmations...] is a mental illness issue. Despeite th


THESE Hoarding Laws mean you can't have something if everybody can't have it. But don't wory! Yoiu will be able to get in line down the street for the Federally Funded Soup Kitchen. Take out...you just take your famy's portion and then move along home again to eat it. Portion controlled so that obesity problem that is so unhealth is no longr an issue.



So when the Locust Squads BURST WITHOUT WARNING into your house.....what will you have left? Is everything in plain sight? IF it happened TODAY? Will those of you with allergic adverse reactions still be able to cook special foods for those family members?


MtRider [ :pc_coffee ...sheeesh typing blind is IRRITATING! ]

Edited by Mt_Rider, 09 November 2012 - 12:52 PM.
well, still can't see half of this to correct - sorry :shrug:

[homeschoolshe]

I have issues with my hiding places because I forget that stuff is there. I have a couple medium sized really good ones. Thanks for getting me thinking. I'll see if anything is there and get back to this. (If it's empty it is getting filled today.

[lumabean]

If this happened right now, I'd have nothing left, because they'd clearly see what I have and where it's at (that little privacy screen isn't going to keep anyone at bay). In our apartment, we have limited space as it is, with no hiding places. The only thing I can think of is to put things in suitcases, but not much will fit in the two that we have, and I'd suspect that they'd look in places like that.
Now my mind is mulling over ways to hide things in plain sight something beyond putting things in a mis-marked box or putting a tablecloth over something to resemble an end table.

I wonder if the squads would bring dogs to sniff things out, or equipment to identify false walls and such (okay...maybe I'm over-thinking, but then again, maybe not, who knows where the lines would be anymore).

For awhile I've been wondering if the gov't would access records to see what we've purchased online -- it would be bad enough having people showing up searching, all the more so if they showed up with a list of what they were specifically looking for

This is yet another scenario I am going to be thinking about a lot. It would really stink to end up being forced to "share" with those who didn't do anything to plan for themselves. I'm not a greedy person, but I am not that thrilled over the prospect of going without now only to end up prepping for someone else's emergency (been there, done that for my siblings, and it isn't something I want to do again, esp. for strangers).

[themartianchick]

My preps are not at all hiddden. They are in fairly obvious places since I tend to prep more for things like weather and not so much for descending hordes. If I thought that things were getting to that point, I might make some changes. I have a few ideas about that, though I've never acted on those thoughts.

[Mt_Rider]

And ..by the way....DO NOT mention how you hide things/plan to hide things except in general wasys that mean wer'e talking about how people MIGHT hide things. Mebbe we should talk about where we hide family birthday presents!


MtRider [...try googling IRS raids...we're talking white collar, tax-type POSSIBLE violations. See what comes up....if you want to know if this Scenario might be closer than we hope. ]

[out_of_the_ordinary]

This Without Warning is giving me much more to think about than they normally do!


With all of my dietary limitations--Celiac disease, bunch of doc diagnosed food allergies (I think it's 19 or 20), stuff I don't pop up as allergic to, but get very ill from (like apples, anything with even a little bit of apple in it) ; and my current state of reacting to salicylates and a bunch of stuff I never reacted to (from the year+ of dealing with allergic reaction from the washing machine my system became "overloaded" and is utlra super sensitive mode), there's an extremely limited selection of food I can tolerate right now.

I never, ever eat anything DH and I haven't cooked ourselves. It took me awhile to fully implement measures to prevent any kind of cross-contamination with gluten; there's just no way any kind of "soup kitchen" or anything like that could make safe food for me.

Our home is small and there's not much for hiding places.

I don't like to think about this....although like MtRider said things might be more closer than we think.

"You control the food, you control the people." --I forget which evil person to contribute that to.

Line in the sand issue for many people.



Luma, not only are they tracking what you buy online, but think about all of the store loyalty/rewards type of cards. I refuse to sign up for anymore. In my area: Giant Eagle, Lowes, Sears, KMart, Bottom Dollar, Sam's Club, Costco, RiteAid, Walgreens, Ollie's Bargain Outlet, Dick's Sporting Goods (further tracking ammo). I don't have all of those cards. Those are just the stores pushing their cards. Alot of them, you can't get the sale price without one. Bottom Dollar has some good sales, judging from their ads, but since you need a card, I refuse to go in. I know some people don't shop at Walmart, but they seem to be one of the few stores around without a card.

And using debit or credit cards. We quit using the debit card so much when I returned an item to Target once. They didn't even need to swipe my debit card to reimburse me; they just scanned the receipt and the amount was automatically put back in my checking account. So stores obviously store our info.

[HazelStone]

And using debit or credit cards. We quit using the debit card so much when I returned an item to Target once. They didn't even need to swipe my debit card to reimburse me; they just scanned the receipt and the amount was automatically put back in my checking account. So stores obviously store our info.

Here, have another layer of tinfoil...

Maybe you'd be happier not knowing this...

http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

It's about Target's marketing analytics figuring out things you might not want them to know yet... there are public health initiatives that use the same methods, not mentioned in the article though.

It's a fascinating article (though a little long).

On the original question I think the difficult thing would be the SMELL of the food coming from your home...or that is on you. If you fried up something for dinner that smell will be a lot more detectable on you by people who are truly hungry. If you belch after a contraband cheeseburger... Or if you bake something, have something else on your breath, etc. Historically I'd look at historical accounts in Eastern Europe during the war and early Communist years. The pressure/rules to be as miserable as everyone else was pretty strong. I heard an old Polish immigrant mention that if you tried to raise a little more, save a little more, plant a little more...your neighbors would rat you out and it would be taken. People might build a chicken coop IN THEIR BATHTUB to keep a little extra protein coming...neighbors would find out and bye-bye hens....

Find out what tactics the Poles and Lithuanians used in those years (or, if you can stand the REALLY grim content, during the Siege of Leningrad. I take no responsibility if you have to drown your sorrows after reading that stuff, though!)

just a little more to think about

[CrabGrassAcres]

They'd probably steal my beloved animals first. Then they'd probably take the livestock feed. Might as well, with the animals gone. Think they'd take home canned foods? I live in a mobile on a flood plain. Not many places to hide a lot that it wouldn't be totally ruined by weather before the locusts got here. Don't know if they'd go thru the storage trailer. Things aren't well labeled in there and lots of stuff piled around. Guess it depends on how determined they are. Only was to access a soup kitchen here would be to move to town or the camps.

In the Ukraine they deliberately set out to starve the population to death. It can happen here. They took away the right to own anything you grew or had owned before. Everything belonged to the state and you could be sent to siberia for eating what you grew.

However, if you are only dealing with people who want what you have, you could probably hide some of it. The grains and beans are nutrient dense and if properly packed can keep a long time. If your water table isn't too high, you might consider making some underground caches. I would probably go with the plastic 55 gal barrels with a good tight seal. I'm hoping to move soon, or I'd seriously be trying to find a safe spot for some.

[Jeepers]

I couldn't read the entire post but I think I understand the scenario. If they descend upon me unannounced all they have to do is go to my basement and I'll be wiped out. I'm not giving away anything. It's obvious I have one and I know every room in the house will be searched. I could throw a sheet over the shelves but of course all they would have to do is lift it. If they open every door in my house including closets, they will find what I have.

If I have a warning I would be able to hide stuff but not without my sons help.



Anyone know of a good book about how life was for the the Poles, Lithuanians and Ukrainians etc. and Siberian life during that communist reign? I'm in search of a good 'hardship' read this winter.

[mommato3boys]

Ok so I had a long post written then deleted it, it was too scary. But let me me give you something to think about. Those kicking in your door are not going to be nice people. They are not going to be your local PD or county sheriff. They are going to be well trained military people and probably not American troops but UN troops. They are going to rip things apart and turn things over. They will look on the top shelf they will look under the bed they will toss the mattress. When you prep and store stuff think if I was doing a drug raid where would be the first and last place I look?

[CrabGrassAcres]

I couldn't read the entire post but I think I understand the scenario. If they descend upon me unannounced all they have to do is go to my basement and I'll be wiped out. I'm not giving away anything. It's obvious I have one and I know every room in the house will be searched. I could throw a sheet over the shelves but of course all they would have to do is lift it. If they open every door in my house including closets, they will find what I have.

If I have a warning I would be able to hide stuff but not without my sons help.



Anyone know of a good book about how life was for the the Poles, Lithuanians and Ukrainians etc. and Siberian life during that communist reign? I'm in search of a good 'hardship' read this winter.

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0195051807

[Jeepers]

Thanks CGA! I put it in my wish list. When I get enough for free shipping I'll get it. I'm checking out the other recomended reading books in the middle of the site. Hope I can get something for Kindle too.

[Philbe]

"You control the food, you control the people." --I forget which evil person to contribute that to....From Philbe...Just read about how they controlled the Native Americans...the Jewish people...the Irish...all through history we have perfect examples of how people suffered and were controlled by governments.

[Mt_Rider]

Dancing under the Red Star is a very interesting book. A family shipped over from the US
to work in Russia's Ford Motor plant. Ford did not get them out when the curtain fell.



MtRider [...a piece of history I never heard before ]

[lumabean]

I ordered The Harvest of Sorrow (should arrive Tuesday), I think I am going to order Dancing Under the Red Star too. Both sound very interesting, but I will take them slowly. The last book along the lines of hardship as these that I read was the Elie Wiesel trilogy Night, Dawn, Day. Absolutely felt as though my heart was going to burst at moments of them -- how inhumane mankind can be was painfully clear.

~~~~~

Mommato3boys's thought-provoking post has me thinking too! That's a great point, those showing up aren't going to be folks from our own area, the local people who may have mercy or pity. That's a lot to take in to consideration in itself! I am all the more convinced that the more rural, the better. Just thinking of even my mother's road, though it's getting more built up, there are still wooded areas where (ideally) people could bury some stores of things, even in partly dead trees if they had to. The issue would be if anyone nearby saw and reported it, but again the more rural the better. I wish we could afford to move. I've been praying for the Lord to lead us where He finds best for us, I've been chomping at the bit to just get up and go (until I think "with what?" "where to?") and then reality sets in, and I am just grateful we're not center city NY or something area like that.

~~~~~

Out_of_the_ordinary, I had that happen at Target too, I was shocked how quickly they pulled that up -- I forgot all about it until you posted about it. The club cards are something else too. I have these fears of some gov't guy showing up with my LDS or Honeyville order history asking what I did with cases of flour, etc. I was thinking about a prepaid card for orders like that, but then there's still the issue with the shipping address and such so I guess for internet based orders there's really no way around the tracking.

Edited by lumabean, 09 November 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[out_of_the_ordinary]

Hazel, I think I need more than one extra layer! Maybe I'll use the non-stick kind. That article was very shocking. Thank you for letting us know about it.

Philbe, I heard that quote on Glenn Beck's show when it was on Fox. It really stuck with me. I think it was a story about an evil guy who starved millions of people, maybe in country in Asia. I can't remember who it was, though.


Thank you CGA, Mt Rider and Luma. I'll add those books to my list.

Edited by out_of_the_ordinary, 09 November 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[mi_familia]

I am doomed. I have no decent hiding places in our mobile home that is safe from the elements. We've been through it trying to come up with one.

On the bright side, this would be very time consuming and not very quiet, espeially in the city/suburbs, so there could be time to hide a few things.

[HazelStone]

Ok so I had a long post written then deleted it, it was too scary. But let me me give you something to think about. Those kicking in your door are not going to be nice people. They are not going to be your local PD or county sheriff. They are going to be well trained military people and probably not American troops but UN troops. They are going to rip things apart and turn things over. They will look on the top shelf they will look under the bed they will toss the mattress. When you prep and store stuff think if I was doing a drug raid where would be the first and last place I look?

Were I to bet on this scenario I would think this would have way higher chances to be done by local thugs (or even neighbors) before any government people bother... effect is the same though. Or (again) we'd be getting an influx of people from elsewhere that are facing this scenario first... I usually assume that such misfortunes locally are far more likely from government *neglect* rather than active involvement. But I grew up in a tiny town, so that may be my own bias talking.

Jealous neighbors can be a far worse force than bullies from the state. And opsec is blown much quicker. The other day I ordered cookie paddles for my Bosch mixer and a couple of Snapware containers from Emergency Essentials...and then Fedex delivered it two doors down. Arrrrgh... very very light package, but even with unmarked boxes the company name is still on the shipping label. Neighbors are more likely to forget the details but dang I hate that.

In other news my Walmart now has those "survival food" buckets and has placed them right by the entrance- capitalizing on after-the-fact purchases from the hurricane I suppose.

[HazelStone]

Philbe, I heard that quote on Glenn Beck's show when it was on Fox. It really stuck with me. I think it was a story about an evil guy who starved millions of people, maybe in country in Asia. I can't remember who it was, though.

Stalin has said things along those lines... also Chairman Mao. Read about China's Great Leap Forward, but for the love of your own sanity don't read very much about China's experiences in WWII (at the hands of the Japanese). In my view it was worse than the Jews' experiences. Some things you really wish you could forget you read. Iris Chang researched the subject, wrote a book on it, fell into deep depression, and committed suicide (she was also putting together an account of Bataan). Her subject material probably wasn't the only factor in it but no doubt it was still be a big influence in her breakdown. Poor woman...

[TheCG]

Amazon is recommending a book called "Execution by Hunger" to me based on the other 2 mentioned in this thread. It's very highly rated, and available on Kindle as well.

Just FYI.