39 replies to this topic

[Philbe]

While snooping around I ran onto this tube. Found it very scary...a bit encouraging that somebody cares...but mostly wondering just how many of these might we find across our country if SHTF...

[Mt_Rider]

Interesting! I was the director of a homeless outreach for two years. We had an outreach worker and an RN in a mobile van. Medical supplies, tarps, food, etc. I rode out with the team occasionally. I can tell you, there is real creativity when folks are trying to carve out HOME from non-standard resources. I saw a hobit hole, a dredged out cave, and many, many tents.

It was back two decades ago that while testifying in front of House/Senate subcommitte hearing [at the state level] that I began to point out that when you combine all the various laws and ordinances, this state has declared 'homelessness' to be illegal at night . There aren't supposed to be any 'status crimes' in America. It isn't supposed to be a crime to BE...to EXIST. You cannot stop existing at night. And there truly was no legal place for folks to be at night if they had dropped out of convential housing.

During my time in that job, a homeless shelter was built that housed perhaps 10% of the homeless. It was not an appropriate facility for the homeless with mental health issues.....and definitely not for those with a dual-diganosis of mental illness and substance abuse. 'Course...'self-medicating' is common among this population of mentally ill folks. They try to make the voices stop....or to lessen the agony of depression.... with ANYthing. Many are not functional enough to truly know they are doing themselves more harm.

Many have habituated to the lifestyle of homelessness because it is lower in expectations -- an issue I also addressed frequently. Our society has gotten VASTLY more complicated in the past 50 years. Anyone who is in the lower half, as far as basic intelligence rating, is struggling to keep up with all the complexity. Most are simply UNABLE to keep so many things straight. Like paying bills for so many things. Like following all of the proceedures and regulations. I know my sisterInLaw certainly couldn't understand HALF of what social workers tried to explain to her. She did what most learn to do....nod earnestly as tho you DO have a clue. Then walk out and forget it all. But most of them understand just enough to live in terror...but not enough to know how to make it stop.

Back when life wasn't nearly so complicated, the lower half of the intelligence scale could work in repeditive type jobs. They could live at home or pay rent and electric and gas bill. They could take a bus or walk. In small towns, it was even slower and more simple than in cities. These folks are not going to disappear, nor are they going to miraculously become able to handle higher functions of priority-setting, and advanced reasoning. They don't have what it takes and the families are getting far more dysfunctional anyway. The way some of these folks have been treated as they were brought up has only intensified their challenges in modern complex society. There doesn't seem to be any place for them anymore. They can work and function as simpler, repeditive jobs. Often they very much WANT to, but it's all a blur of confusion to them these days. The stress of failure is the same for them as it is for any of us. So they seek somewhere they can fit in.

There are, of course, those who's substance abuse issues are a choice they continue to make. The ones that do not have mental health issues to cloud their reasoning. They all have their own reasons for their issues...and they must make their own choices.

There are also folks who enjoy a differnt lifestyle. For a variety of odd or good reasons. Actually, DH and I spent most of a year camping out...on our own undeveloped land. A misguided attempt to build a log cabin without the basic skills necessary. A drunk driver running a red light and smashing into DH...destroying our vehicle and crushing two of his vertebrae didn't help either.

We were young. We survived and went back to live/start over in a house we still owned but had rented out. We weren't so much 'homeless' as 'houseless'. At least in the standard definition of the term. BTW....bronchial pnemonia is NOT fun....Duluth, MN in winter is challenging when you aren't living within solid walls. BTDT....and don't wanna have to do it ever again.

But....who of us knows what will happen in our lives. I used to be rather wryly amused by the defensiveness of those who exclaimed: Well *I* would NEVER allow myself to become homeless. It's THOSE PEOPLE ...not those like me! Real separation and they have NO IDEA that not-so-very-much actually separates "them" from "me". I saw many solid families, even 20 years ago, that ended up homeless. Usually it was due to not just one single event but many. Job loss plus illness. Disability plus car accident plus sick child..... The possibilites go on and on. Our homeless program really tried to stabilize the families with children. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. The economy in this location was horrible. Jobs did NOT pay what it would take to house a family. Those who crunch the numbers told us it took 2.5 jobs at the average rate of pay to afford rental housing/basic needs for a family. And WHO is home with the children?

Fast Forward Twenty Years...... I'm long gone from that profession. I haven't kept track of it either. But I can extrapolate the data I knew then....and the prices I know now.... And I can assume that the homeless populations are exploding. It's not likely the mental health figures have grown that much. Those that choose substance abuse over a sober lifestyle might have increased just a bit with the current pressures. But not that much. I wouldn't expect the percentage of 'different minded' folks has greatly increased. So where do I think the drastic increase has likely come from? .....from those who once would have said... {gasp} "That would NEVER BE ME! I'd do SOMEthing!" And they now know just how helpless ANY of us might be to stop it...given a series of events over which none of us has any control. Or mebbe some things that are simple bad judgement...and end up having long-lasting consequences. Job loss....plus continued baaaad economy....plus running out of unemployment before finding another job.... Overextending on finances....plus job loss...... Sometimes the shock of what is happening is so great, folks just can't adapt fast enough...don't adapt fast enough. They keep making the same moves and expecting the results to be what they USED to be....and it no longer works that way.

To be homeless does not require mental illness and/or substance abuse and/or a continuing lifestyle of poor choices anymore. All of those things are the Fast Track to homelessness, of course. But it's not the ONLY way to find yourself in that very dangerous state of BEING. If we dive into GreatDepression2 .....if we have hyperinflation....if we have......


IF you do face a possibility of living without standard housing, TRY to see it coming fast enough to cut your losses. Dump the upside-down house and those payments that are like an anchor drowning you. Purchasing an RV or travel trailer will VASTLY improve your safety and options. RV'ers are not "homeless" ....tho you still need to have a legal place to park. Tents are not really a safe option. Climate needs to be really pretty warm. Tent cities, even supervised, like this one, can still be dangerous places. [and WOW..that's the CLEANEST tent city I've ever seen, by the way!] Homelessness is a very danger-filled lifestyle. Afterall, our home is our biggest security. While we sleep....are we mostly safe?


These are my thoughts as this video sent me back two decades.....or ahead to an uncertain future?

MtRider

Edited by Mt_Rider, 11 December 2012 - 11:28 PM.
clarity

[Amishway Homesteaders]

I think I would do the "living in the middle of the woods" better then in a "tent City"
and I could do most of what would be needed to survive and have the 'tools' to do that already.

[Amishway Homesteaders]

...................... I have to find some way to get my Kindle to 'watch' youtube as for whenever I try it sys I need some program first?
As here at home with dial-up it takes forever just to load the fisrt 20 seconds.

[mommato3boys]

I know there is a tent city in the Raleigh area. One of the local churches has started a church there is it called A Church in the Woods http://www.churchinthewoods.net/

[homeschoolshe]

AH- update on the KF disabled flash. I sent you a message on how to find it.

[CrabGrassAcres]

That camp was clean because that minister quit his job to go live there and look after those people. Most tent cities are haphazard with nobody really in charge or helping. I would far rather go camp alone in the woods if I were homeless again.

When we sold the house just ahead of foreclosure, I was able to find a piece of property that I could make 130/month payments on and pitched a tent on it. We lived in that till someone had pity and loaned us an old camper which we lived in until I was able to get a ratty old mobile home pulled out there.

I KNOW how quickly you can go from having a decent roof over your head to being out in the elements with nothing. I also know there are a LOT of people who are doing a major balancing act, trying to keep their roof over their heads. The crazy part is, many of those could and should have their financial act together with a little self discipline.

It is also amazing how many, like I was, have been devastated financially by selfish, manipulating family that put them into a hole and then refused to pay back what they borrowed and refused to even give a hand when the helpful family member needed help themselves. That is why I constantly encourage people to stand up to family that are using them and refuse to be drawn into the drama and financial straits.

I am reminded of when I was 9 and my sister was 10 and we were playing on a boat ramp while Daddy fished off the dock. She stepped off the end into water over her head. Neither of us could swim. When she began flailing around I stretched out my hand to her and she promptly pulled me off the edge too. Daddy finally realized we were in difficulties and pulled us back to shore. He was almost too late.

Of course, I was too young to realize that I should have stood on the higher area and called Daddy to come help and almost paid with my life. Sometimes you just have to stand on your own ground and call for assistance. Maybe offer to take the person to get food stamps or offer to take the pet they can't afford to the shelter or help them locate a cheaper place to live, but don't buy groceries, don't pay the rent and don't buy pet food or take the pet "just till you get situated better".

[Philbe]

What insight from each of you! Like MTR says it can (and does) happen to anybody. How many of our population live within 90 days of bankruptcy? Mtn.Mn was blessed with having his Little House paid off and I'm blessed that This House is paid off. But the Homestead isn't, and it hurts like the dickens every time I have to write out a payment to Mom's living trust...and she's in the downstairs apt and son's in the upstairs apt! Not a dime rent coming in from either...but...they're safe, warm and fed. Mom's doing her part to prep with food and paying the utilities for both apts. Sure wish son's disability would come on through so he can shoulder his share of the load! We're looking at real estate tax time shortly, and all three properties come at us like "jaws 2" every year...so selling 2 have got to be a bigger priority for us. It's just hard for Mtn.Mn to pass up on work that comes in, putting money into the coffers, and maintaining his self-employed business...to work on a house that's going to take several more months to get on the market, and then who knows how long to sell? Because it's paid off will help alot in negotiating the sale price. Don't want to owner finance (or lease out) because if SHTF we'll have "squatters" and then what!? I agree about having a camper of some sort. They're usually pretty easy to heat and keep dry. Even leaky roofs can be tarped over until some sort of caulking can be applied. Most have heat/cooking systems built for propane and that puts people a leg up because they don't have to forage and cut wood...they just need to keep some propane tanks filled...what, about $30 a tank? We "dry camped" from the mid-west all the way to the Texas coast line...and there were many nights that were darned right COLD...and didn't even use one of our tanks. We kept the trailer furnace at 50 at night (didn't heat during the day...we were in the truck and warm) and slept with thermal underwear and under my "biscuit" quilt. Very comfy. Kept the frig at just the right temp to keep freezer foods frozen and heated one stock pot of water per day to wash up with at night before bed. Kept several gallon jugs of water (get free refills at service stations) in the shower and used it instead of de-winterizing the trailer...didn't want our plumbing etc. to freeze. In the warmer states we were able to go ahead and de-winterize and then with Mtn.Mn's hand pump, re-wintz (with RV anti-freeze only!) when entering back into the cold states. We were out nearly a month and only paid for 2 nights at an RV park...they rest of the nights we just found a WM and asked "where do you allow RV'ers"? They'd tell us and we'd go park for the night. Cabela's, BassPro and Camping World also allow overnight camping for free. Lots of places do, just check online for "free camping"..you'd be surprised! So...having said all that...again...it's pure smart to include a camper of some sort in our preps??? Even just a van is better than a tent?

[CrabGrassAcres]

Getting an RV if at all possible is good advice to someone who is struggling to keep a roof over their heads. Rather than scrambling for rent or mortgage payments plus utilities, it might be an option for some to get a used travel trailer and set it up somewhere while saving what income you can. If I were renting, for instance and knew there was a good possibility of losing my job, or if the job didn't pay enough to have a comfortable cushion in the bank and I was living from paycheck to paycheck, I'd explore the possibility of getting an RV set up in a cheap park or on a friend's back forty. Then I'd sock away every penny I could so I could get into a better situation for the long haul.

[Philbe]

Absolutely CGA! We have some friends who own a small RV park about 100 miles from us and back in the woods, and they have about 10 "full timers" that rent their spaces for $300 and pay only for what electricity they use, and can fill their propane tanks right there in the park. "IF" we ever did have to really bug out of our town, that's exactly where we'd head...dragging our travel trailer behind us! We've done alot of traveling in our RV's and have seen alot of "full timers" that just stay in an RV park, and other "full timers" that never stay very long any place. Most state parks allow you about 3 weeks before you have to pull out and come back in the next few days to a different spot (smile) and I think the corps parks are about the same. We stay mostly at corps parks because with a lifetime senior pass, we pay $10 a night usually...that's still only $300 a month +/- and it includes electricity, a dump station, and sometimes even water. If you don't have a bathroom...they usually have decent shower houses. And I also agree CGA, if you're not even making ends meet, then trying to find a cheap RV of some sort would be my first prep item. We have a very close friend (who is a divorcee) who is retired, owns her RV Van (Class and has for years...and has traveled the US for nearly 5 years, stopping only when she finds an elderly lady that needs private in home care, and works for a few months or ??? She usually winters in Quartsite, AZ from Dec-Mar and dry camps the whole time, working in small jobs that the town festival has every year. Mnt.Mn spent several months there in his van/camper and worked parking cars one year, and stuffing flyers another year. There's no rent charged when they park on the desert, but they do have to pay for honey wagons to come pump their black/grey water tanks and then another truck that comes to fill their fresh water tanks. If things were better here we'd be there right now!
http://www.quartzsitervshow.com/

[lumabean]

It's sobering to think of the day to day lives of the people in those situations, and how quickly anyone can find themselves in a bad way, with increasing prices, job security seeming to be a thing of the past, I can see it happening all too often to people who never ever thought they'd end up homeless. Being a renter, that reality sinks in even more -- we don't own land, a home ... we don't even own a tent (I've got it on my prep list though).

It is also amazing how many, like I was, have been devastated financially by selfish, manipulating family that put them into a hole and then refused to pay back what they borrowed and refused to even give a hand when the helpful family member needed help themselves. That is why I constantly encourage people to stand up to family that are using them and refuse to be drawn into the drama and financial straits.
......................
Sometimes you just have to stand on your own ground and call for assistance. Maybe offer to take the person to get food stamps or offer to take the pet they can't afford to the shelter or help them locate a cheaper place to live, but don't buy groceries, don't pay the rent and don't buy pet food or take the pet "just till you get situated better".

This is something I am learning quickly! Being there to loan money and time, etc, can lead us to sink quickly, it's hard to say no, esp. when there are kids involved who need 'help', but eventually it has to stop. It's still hard to do though, but when the result is being in dire straights ourselves, what alternative is there (other than sinking ourselves).

[Philbe]

PS...the corps of engineer parks are free after the "season" closes (usually Oct. 31st)...but sometimes they don't turn off the water until the first freeze is predicted. State Parks have the "honor system" parking fees (which are a little discounted) and the electric is still on year round also. Both have "vault" bathrooms but shower houses are wintz'd and locked up....in states that are cold. Don't know about the warmer climate parks, but I think they're open year round. Our friends with the "little park in the woods" has as a benefit of their camp, a beautiful swimming pool for summer fun, a small grocery section in their office, and a clean (though rustic) shower house, and a coin operated laundry. What more could we ask for if we HAD to bug out for a "vacation"! LOL

[Christy]

The first half year of working on our BOL, there was nowhere to live in. The mayor kindly lend me a roadworkers trailer. About as long as 2 meter perhaps. I tried to sleep in the tent outside but the first month was too cold. It froze at night and I came down with bronchitis real quick.
While sleeping in the trailer it was just as hard cos of lack of space. Nearly as cold lying on the floor in minus 5C.

Please don't think caravan or something fancy. Just a wooden shed on wheels with (that was luxury) a woodstove in the corner.
Living rough is not something I'd gladly do again. And this was not even so rough. Bucket of water from the neighbours daily, solar shower, Trangia stove to cook on, so not bad in comparison to the people in tent cities.

But no, I'd not survive a winter that way.

[CrabGrassAcres]

Christy, so glad you have something better now!

[Philbe]

One thing that is a campers friend is a "portable black water" tank. It lets you drain your black water (from your potty) into it and then pull it away from camp site to dump or bury. It's got a spout like connection on top so nothing splashes on you, if you are dumping into a dump station (like they have at parks etc.)...just sharing. We have one "just in case" our black water tank were to get full. Some even have a hitch so you can hitch them to your vehicle and pull them somewhere to dump. And yes, don't go out and spend alot of your hard earned dollars on a fancy RV. We had a little 16' AeroLite that we camped in for a couple of years, sold it and bought our new one...but was able to pay cash for it. Mtn.Mn lived full time in a Scamp. They also have other smaller trailers, Cassita's and Egg's...but it will be REALLY hard to find one of them used. They're hardy and people love 'em! We've stuck with AeroLite because they're easy to pull and you don't need a big dually to pull them. We're able to pull ours (26') with our half ton pickup.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by Philbe, 17 December 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Amishway Homesteaders]

AH- update on the KF disabled flash. I sent you a message on how to find it.

Thanks but it must not be on the Kindle Fire?
I did get to see it by going to YouTube and loading it from there onto Kindle.
It was our 'date movie' of the week - Lori and I were at Library checking on things so we went to sit in Wi-Fi area and found it, loaded it and listened with our earplug so we could hear the sound.
Now what we have is just a 'bud' headset but if we sit together on the couch and each put one side of bud in our ear we can listen to what is being said. People walk by seeing us both huddled together watching the small screen and think it is so romantic - but we have to do that so the cord from the earplug doesn't pull out! LOL
Also watched a few of the outdoor Christmas Displays on YouTube while there. Wish we could have turned off the Library Lights but we were not alone.

Edited by Amishway Homesteaders, 18 December 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Mt_Rider]

Cute, AH!

MtRider ---under the category of Where-there's-A-Will-there's-a-Way!

[Philbe]

MR...yep...where there's a will there's a way. Take a gander at this lifestyle!
http://destinysurviv...-and-liking-it/

[goatherder]

When I was a kid, my parents moved us to the middle of nowhere in AR. No house (it had burned down), no running water, no electricity. We lived in a tent and cooked on a fire until they managed to make one of the two barns on the property "liveable". We heated with wood, used an outhouse, hauled water from a spring, kept food in a springhouse, and nearly starved out. My brother was about 13 and went hunting. We ate a lot of squirrels and rabbits. It was one of the worst winters they ever had when we were there. We survived, eventually got electricity, but the next year we moved to a small town and when we had enough money for gas, we came back to AZ. It was an adventure and the experience taught me that it's not that hard to live without modern conveniences.

[Philbe]

Many years ago, Mountain Man (as a batchelor) lived for nearly 2 years with his dog in one of these...

 

Attached Thumbnails

•