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$7/gallon of milk -- do you think it will happen?


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#41 indy gal preps

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:55 AM

I know what hard work it is with dairy or any kind of farming-my father raised beef cattle-we had milk cows just for our own use(jersys are the BEST,love their temperment) and we also grew veg,for our own use.We couldn't go anywhere without being back for the milking-so it is a lot of work and time.The farmers deserve pay for their labor-unfortunately they don't make much.The price of milk at our Kroger grocerys this weekend is $1.99 per gallon,limited to 4 gallons.

#42 ScrubbieLady

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:17 AM

The only people that can make sure that farmers are "fully rewarded for their hard work" are the farmers.  They control how much they spend and how much they sell for.  The government has NO BUSINESS using my money to subsidize or prop up or whatever you call it prices.  For the record, I pay $4 per half-gallon of milk from a local guy that pasteurizes but doesn't use hormones or antibiotics.  i KNOW that he works hard.  And I KNOW that his expenses are high. He has an open facility.  If you show up and want to walk around and see how things are done, come on, anytime. 

 

Farmers who cannot or won't operate a business to make money should probably change their business model or change their business. 

 

We work hard for our money also.  And some have to work more than one job because the government steals our money to subsidize some industries.  I would much rather have higher prices and decide what I want to buy with my money than the government steals it and uses that money to pay for products that I may or may not want to purchase.

 

BTW, the $7/gallon was not a free market price, it was one that the government would require itself to pay for milk and that is a reason that the price would be so high.  As for farmers dumping milk, that is their decision.  I think it is a wrong one but that is their decision to protest. 



#43 Dee

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:29 AM

This is crazy, I give up. 



#44 Violet

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

At this point there doesn't seem to be an answer. No subsidies, no dairy products to speak of. Then, lots of people with no jobs. They all go on unemployment and welfare  ? Is that the answer ?  We still pay for it then .

My concerns are about the total food supply. The population is so high that we can't seem to grow enough food and what is grown is not affordable. It isn't just the dairy industry.

So, we get all this imported junk food. I do not like to buy produce from Mexico, for example. We are told to not drink the water if we go there. What are they watering the crops with ? The same water we are not supposed to drink due to illness ?

 

At least with American farmers it keeps them working and they are doing a decent days work, and then some. It is nothing but hard work. They are contributing to society, which is more than a lot of folks. I have to give them credit for that !

 

It isn't just the food supply. Where are your clothes made ? Much of it in sweat shops around the world. We used to have Cannon Mills that made cotton for sheets and towels. My mom and relatives worked for Cannon Mills for years and years.  Socks were made here, too. Now where are they made ?

 

Send the illegal aliens all home is my feeling. We spend billions in health care for them. Uninsured drivers that have accidents. Who pays for that ? WE do !

I would much rather help out a hard working legal  American citizen any day !!!


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#45 Gunplumber

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:49 AM

So no matter how you want to screw this around gunplumber and I'm sure you will, the above is all I was trying to say.

 

Except it isn't all you said.  And while you have every right to say it, I have the same right to point out the fallacies. If you meant something different than what you wrote, then you should correct yourself instead of taking it out on me for responding to is as written.

 

As to subsidies, the American people could not afford the food the farmers produce in this country if the government didn't subsidize it.  It keeps all our food prices as reasonable as possible.

 

This is the statement that defined your position

 

OK...here's the deal.  I am not saying subsidies are necessary to the farmers survival.  I would be fine with subsidies being stopped.  The point I was TRYING to make is this........ the farmer is going to make money or quit.  Either there will be subsides or there won't be and if there isn't the prices in the grocery store will skyrocket. 

 

And all I've been saying is to stop stealing from me to give to pet areas of agriculture - bring back the free market.  If the true value of milk is $7 a gallon, and I want it, I'll buy it.  I've paid that much of a latte, though not often.

 

The same argument has been made to justify illegal immigration - if it wasn't for those criminal invaders, we'd be paying $7 for a tomato.  I say - great.  I'll happily pay $7 for a tomato that I can choose to buy or not, than pay the $1000 I currently have taken from me to buy breakfast and lunch for the children of these criminal invaders.

 

Artificially change one part of a system and the rest of the system operates differently - differently but not naturally. 


Edited by Gunplumber, 05 January 2013 - 09:50 AM.

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#46 Gunplumber

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

No subsidies, no dairy products to speak of. Then, lots of people with no jobs. They all go on unemployment and welfare  ? Is that the answer ?  We still pay for it then .

 

Welfare is another subsidy to end.

 

The Federal government has no business giving a single cent to any individual.  The government has a duty to promote the general welfare.  I can see this including interstate roads, bridges, parks, infrastructure.  While some will benefit one state more than another, as a whole they are for the general welfare of the country.  Paying individuals or individual groups anything is not their job - the money is not theirs to give.

 

Some people assume some terrible disaster if one industry stops receiving stolen money.  Th industries getting the stolen money spend a lot of it to convince the rest of the country how desperate times will be, should the subsidies stop.  But that is not the reality of a free economy.  Company A stops getting subsidies, they may well have to raise prices.  And the customers may balk, and the company may not be able to sell, so goes bankrupt.  Then someone else buys the assets for pennies on the dollar and starts his  organic raw milk farm on a smaller scale with same equipment he got for a song.  . . people line up to buy the product they actually want at a price they agree to.  Then the EPA arrests him and throws him in jail and burns his house down and shoots all of his livestock, because they decided that people should not be allowed to buy or sell raw milk . . . . for their own good.  And once again the market is bassackwards thanks to good old government interference with you and me spending our money how we want.


Edited by Gunplumber, 05 January 2013 - 10:04 AM.

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#47 ScrubbieLady

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:03 AM

Thank you gunplumber.



#48 homeschoolshe

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

Dee and GP are coming from two differing political views....one sees the government's job as distribution and one sees the government's job as to protect us from being encroached upon our persons and properties and taking care of things that will benefit all such as roads, bridges.  You can talk it to death, but only a change of heart could get you two to agree.

 

Milk at $7.00 a gal. I personally did not even realize that our milk was ssubsidized.  I've bought from our Amish neighbors at the same price I pay in the store.  Could I guess that they are not subsidized?????? Their cows are not costing the same as those who are using modern techniques to farm with. They are not using gasoline, or electricity to milk, or grow their crops.  Lots of back breaking hard work though. 

 

I don't want to spend $7.00 a gallon on milk, but hard times are coming.  Drinking a glassful of milk will probably be out.  My kids don't drink many glasses of it, and hubby and I could stand to do without. Calcium can be found in leafy green veggies.  Eggshells can be ground fine and put in other foods.  Bones can be cooked down into broth.


Edited by homeschoolshe, 06 January 2013 - 11:00 AM.

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#49 Violet

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

I can understand GP's views. However, what SHOULD be and what IS are two different things. How can we MAKE the government stop all of this ??

I do see it as I said. If they do not farm, they will be on government assistance anyway. One way or another. Either work and get subsidized or have no job and then get government money to live on.... So, what IS the answer ?  I sure don't know.

As the saying goes, hang if we do, hang if we don't. 

 

GP, what are your ideas to end all of this government intervention ?  I feel like we are between a rock and a hard place. There seems to be no way out.

 I am not being smart alec in saying this... I am truly just asking . I am interested to find out how you would solve this .  It is so hard to type and not have any facial or tone of voice. That is a big downfall of this computer !

 

I also truly feel for our families who work so hard and still face such hardships. Not just farmers, but people like my son in law who drive truck to bring us our food and goods. Yet, they can hardly survive. This month they do not even know how they will pay their house payment. He works long hours and yet not enough money. They don't eat out, they use every scrap of everything they can. They wear either thrift clothes or from clothing banks. Most of their food comes from food banks at churches. My dd grows a garden and there are a few fruit trees and berry bushes. There is no way to have any livestock on a city lot. Costs too much to feed chickens.  It is really hard when it is your own family. He is gone away from home, spending extremely cold nights in a frozen semi. The other night for dinner he had some chex mix and peanuts. No way to get food , no way to heat any microwave stuff, nothing else. All in 16 degree weather with no pay for the time he is not on the road driving.  

Without the truck drivers, then WE don't get the goods delivered  for our own households.

It would be easier for him to take welfare money and not work, but he won't do that. He is honest and hardworking. Hurts to see not only my kids, but thousands out there like them.


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#50 Andrea

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

Thread Drift:

 

Violet, your sil can pick up a voltage converter at the hardware store for around $30.  This will plug into his cigarette lighter and he can run small appliances off of it in his truck.  He won't be able to run a microwave but he should be able to run an electric kettle.

 

Back to our originally scheduled thread.




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#51 Gunplumber

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

So at least on "welfare" we will know them for what hey are instead of feigning respectability by calling it something else.

 

I had a cactus business . . . I failed at it.  Did I manage it poorly?  Did I read my market poorly?  Was it just inexperience or bad luck?  Who knows, and really, it doesn't matter.  I closed it down, and went into something else.  Life's tough. I doubt anyone noticed.

 

Life is about choices.  It used to be that bad choices were painful.  And sometimes people made rational choices that still failed.   And we learned from them.  We tried to avoid making them again.  But stealing from one guy to subsidize the poor choices of another makes it not painful to the one being subsidized, so they learn nothing.

 

Can we do anything about it?  No.  Our country is lost.  We're just circling the drain.   Our political system is based on stealing from everyone, and then refunding part of the theft to political supporters in the form of subsidies, tax breaks and other "incentives".  This Hurricane Sandy Relief package is so filled with pork and bribes to constituents that it makes me physically ill. 

 

At least in Mexico they call a bribe a bribe, and not a "subsidy" or "incentive" or whatever.  I fail to see how the producers can have any impact at the ballet box when the parasites outnumber the producers.  Eventually, the parasites will run out of other people's money.  I expect there to be violence.


Edited by Gunplumber, 06 January 2013 - 02:34 PM.

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#52 out_of_the_ordinary

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

I can understand GP's views. However, what SHOULD be and what IS are two different things. How can we MAKE the government stop all of this ??

I do see it as I said. If they do not farm, they will be on government assistance anyway. One way or another. Either work and get subsidized or have no job and then get government money to live on.... So, what IS the answer ?  I sure don't know.

As the saying goes, hang if we do, hang if we don't. 

 

GP, what are your ideas to end all of this government intervention ?  I feel like we are between a rock and a hard place. There seems to be no way out.

 

I think that's the problem: getting government intervention out of things.   Elections haven't been won (for the most part) by people wanting to limit the size and power of government.   People are instead voting for those who are extending government's size and reach, sometimes because there's a benefit for them.  

 

  (I'm trying very hard here to make this about the issue, not politics, but I may have to stray over that line a little, please bear with me.)   

 

I've heard of people (DH's coworkers families for example) who voted for a particular candidate in the last election because "they wanted free cell phones".     I know senior citizens who vote a certain way because they want their social security checks increased.  There are certain groups who vote due to subsidizies.    There's numerous other examples of people voting based on things such as those.   Benjamin Franklin warned of this: "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."   

 

I think the whole country got on a different path when FDR started many entitlement programs and subsidizies.   It certainly wasn't what our Founders envisioned.    "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities." --Thomas Jefferson

 

 

Basically, to change, people must vote for those who will truly cut spending and support the Constitution.   Sounds good.  Until--gasp--you mention cutting back on "entitlement programs"  and govenment subsidizies.   

 

The gov't has more $$ going out than it has coming it.    We all know that doesn't work with our household budgets.   Right now, more people are getting something from the government than are paying taxes.   (see Ben Franklin quote above)

 

The government is (redistributing) stealing  my DH's paycheck.   Government should not be forcing us to be chartiable.   Nothing in the Constitution about that!

  

Everyone seems to be angry that we are headed towards very bad times and socialism.  However,  no one wants their piece of the government entitlement pie cut out.


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#53 Dee

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:24 PM

Ok, this is absolutely ridiculous and now I'm PI$$ED!  Nothing was ever said about not working.  I said we'd quit, meaning quit farming or milking.  Meaning we'd go to town and work like most of you do, which many of us do anyway.  Each and everyone of you can keep twisting my words to whatever you want them to mean.  Evidently what I meant and what you seem to take it as are completely different.  I am totally sick of it and all of you.

 

My point was....if you want cheap food there will be subsidies.

If you want to pay full price, which I am in total agreement with, then drop the subsidies.

YOU CANNOT have it both ways. 

 

I really do need to give up and quit coming in here to read all of this!!!



#54 Gunplumber

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:37 PM

Ok, this is absolutely ridiculous and now I'm PI$$ED!  Nothing was ever said about not working.  I said we'd quit, meaning quit farming or milking.  Meaning we'd go to town and work like most of you do, which many of us do anyway.  Each and everyone of you can keep twisting my words to whatever you want them to mean.  Evidently what I meant and what you seem to take it as are completely different.  I am totally sick of it and all of you.

 

Maybe that passive-aggressive crap works with others, but it has no affect on me. I have no idea what you "meant" - only what you WROTE.  If you meant something other than you wrote, you should correct it instead of having a tantrum when others respond to what you actually wrote - which is that we can't afford to eat without subsidizing your industry.  The response remains . ..  baloney.   Here are your exact words.  As to subsidies, the American people could not afford the food the farmers produce in this country if the government didn't subsidize it.  It keeps all our food prices as reasonable as possible.

 

So you'll take your cow and go home.  GOOD!  

 

My point was....if you want cheap food there will be subsidies.

If you want to pay full price, which I am in total agreement with, then drop the subsidies.

YOU CANNOT have it both ways. 


And now who is putting words in the mouths of others.  I want the true value to be established by the free market.   Who cares if item A is cheap, if it is because I'm more than paying for it in tax B.  The net result is the same.  Actually, it isn't.  Because in tax B I'm paying for 100 other people to have cheap item A too.  They pay no taxes.  Remember the 47%?

 

 

I really do need to give up and quit coming in here to read all of this!!!

 

So quit talking about and do it.  Take your cows and go home.  Your tantrums don't impress anyone, although there are certainly some who are so eager to avoid conflict they will submit to your bullying.


Edited by Gunplumber, 06 January 2013 - 03:41 PM.

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#55 Jeepers

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

Another way to look at subsidies is, in my opinion, paying for something you don't use so others can.

 

You (figuratively) tell me not to buy the $7.00 a gallon milk if I don't want to pay the price. Fine. But, I'm already paying for it because I'm  being taxed for it so you can buy it at $7.00 a gallon.

 

That may not be correct but it is the way I and my wallet see it.

 

It's similar to a senior paying for school taxes. I haven't had a school age child for over 25 years yet I'm still paying for someone elses kids to go to public schools...and feeding them while they are there.


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#56 Louis1

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:21 PM

Let's see............ I could buy SEVERAL gallons of milk per week @ $7.00 per gallon with the payroll tax increase that went into effect on January 1 of this year. Like, maybe three per week and still have enough left over at year end for a couple of soon-to-be-banned Glocks.

 

can't afford to produce milk for less than $7.00 per gallon? That is nonsense. It presupposes that whatever the dairy farmers are currently doing is the most efficient, low cost method possible ......... ever.

 

Government subsidies - Just another method for removing incentive from the marketplace.

 

As far as hurt feelings, get used to them and a lot more. We are approaching one of those William B. Travis moments in history.


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spirit the greater as our strength lessens."


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#57 Louis1

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

Another way to look at subsidies is, in my opinion, paying for something you don't use so others can.

 

You (figuratively) tell me not to buy the $7.00 a gallon milk if I don't want to pay the price. Fine. But, I'm already paying for it because I'm  being taxed for it so you can buy it at $7.00 a gallon.

 

That may not be correct but it is the way I and my wallet see it.

 

It's similar to a senior paying for school taxes. I haven't had a school age child for over 25 years yet I'm still paying for someone elses kids to go to public schools...and feeding them while they are there.

Yep. If your paying taxes the parasites are bleeding you as fast as they can.


"Will shall be the sterner, heart the bolder,
spirit the greater as our strength lessens."


If the answer for 1984 is 1776, the answer for 2010 must be 1861!



┐Socialismo O Muerte?

How's that CHANGE working out for you??



#58 lumabean

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Looking over my husband's last pay receipt for 2012, that comparison makes a lot of sense to me, Louis.  I get contrinuting toward roads, police, etc. but the other stuff ... not so much :(



#59 CrabGrassAcres

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

It's similar to a senior paying for school taxes. I haven't had a school age child for over 25 years yet I'm still paying for someone elses kids to go to public schools...and feeding them while they are there.

Yes, my  tax not only is paying for someone else's kids; it is paying for the illegal aliens and their kids AND feeding AND housing AND medical AND extra remedial help because they don't speak English........


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#60 The WE2's

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

My two cents worth on taxes being paid by seniors for other people's children...and along with that comes my "opinion" that ALOT of these children are being raised in households that pay rent, they don't own their property...so, they don't pay the RE taxes like homeowners do.  Not raising up a bully-pulpit, just raising my voice like everybody else! LOL  But...I'm not bitter.  America is still the only country I want to survive in and like so many have said in our past..."buy yourself a one-way ticket to wherever you think life will be better for you". And for those who believe America is going down the drain, then why fight the flow? LOL I've got family who served well in the military, ancestors that worked their tails to the bone and passed on what skills and knowledge they could, and lived through the great depression.  They're not bitter...just wiser.  I see no advantage to insulting one another just get ones personal opinion across.  Personally, I'm listing (reading) but it appalls me to read some of your postings...the bitterness and anger that lies just beneath the surface.  Thankfully, I can choose my friends...and not have to leave this forum because of somebody else's bitterness, anger and/or tantrums.  If you know some postings follow certain individuals...just pass their name up! Simple! Go read those that are funny, helpful, loving and full of wisdom.  I think there a Bible verse (tongue in cheek) that tells us "whatsoever things are......think on them".  Many years ago I put this toilet handle on the side of my head and learned to "flush" junk.  I also have this little mantra that says "you don't pay me enough money to occupy my thoughts this much".  I'm gonna go browsing around this forum and find some really neat people...and leave this topic...which was "supposed" to be about expectations of milk being $7 a gallon and how we'd deal with it. Figure?


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Matthew 6:11  "Give us this day our daily bread...amen." 

Phillipians 4:19  "And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus....amen"

1 Corinthians 13:4-8  "Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant  or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth.  It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things"...let me walk this out Lord.

 




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