What Are You Canning Today??

[Jeepers]

I have never steam canned. I've seen the steam canners you were talking about. Very shallow bottom with a dome lid going over the jars. Sort of like an upside-down pot. One reason I've never steam canned is because I do big batch canning. 

 

I believe Rose Red is correct. It makes perfect sense to me. If the water is boiling and making steam, then they are at 212 degrees. 

 

I waterbathed my sauerkraut after I tested the acidity. Otherwise I would have pressure canned it. 

 

Do you have a flat disk thing that came with your pressure canner? That's what I use in the bottom of the canner and my jars never fell over. But then again, I use a full canner load. I even stacked them using a second flat disk. Can't think of what they are called. Also, do you have a jar lifter? 

 

Anyway, I trust Pam over anyone else on YouTube when it comes to canning. 

[Jeepers]

Ugh, Leisa. I just typed a long rant and posted it and then thought better of it. 

 

Look at her newest video about canning corned beef. She was wrong to begin with when she posted instructions on how to can it and she is wrong saying there is no way safe to can it. 

 

Edited May 20 by Jeepers
Redacted

[Midnightmom]

54 minutes ago, Jeepers said:

Ugh, Leisa. I just typed a long rant and posted it and then thought better of it. 

 

Look at her newest video about canning corned beef. She was wrong to begin with when she posted instructions on how to can it and she is wrong saying there is no way safe to can it. 

 

 

I found it rather disingenuos to say there is no "approved" way to can it, but that she is going to use what she canned anyway - based on her "knowledge" of PC principles etc., so I don't see why you can't apply that same principle (knowledge) to steam canning with a non-steam canner. 

OTOH, I just found this vid from when she first got her steam canner and was demonstrating how to use it according to the manual that came with it. I will have to re-watch RoseRed's vid about water steaming at what temp at what altitude, but the steam canner Leisa was using was letting steam escape all around the bottom lip, so I don't see why steam escaping from around the lid of a PC would be an issue. Also, I think that steam and water spitting out of the bottom of the steam canner she had would be a bit of a safety issue/ what if it spits on YOU when you are trying to read the gauge, or spits out all over the floor and makes it slickery next to the stove?

There was a detail on using the steam canner that I though to be interesting: You need to pre-heat the water you put into the pan; 140F for raw pack foods and 180F for hot pack foods. I wonder why??? Oh, and you can't double stack (picked that tid-bit up from another channel).

Here is SuttonsDaze vid time stamped to actually starting a trial session for using the new canner:

 

[Midnightmom]

Finally, a "certified" site giving instructions for using the steam canner. It gives some good info that is necessary to know if planning to use your PC as a steam canner (although it does not specifically say it is okay to do so) such as remembering to allow the steam to stream from the canner (as specified) to ensure that the air has been vacated, and mentioning that you can stick a thermometer/probe into one of the vent holes to check the temp under the dome. Lots to consider.

Is home canned salsa worth all this trouble???             

 

Forgot to add the link: https://extension.okstate.edu/programs/oklahoma-gardening/recipes/atmospheric-steam-canners-for-home-food-preservation.html

Edited May 20 by Midnightmom

[Midnightmom]

As mentioned I would do previously, I went back to RoseRed's vid and re-watched it. Although she did mention letting the pot "vent" steam for 10 minutes before starting the clock on the processing time, she didn't give the purpose for it. Perhaps she assumed we knew why??? You have to vent all of the air out of the pot to ensure that the jars are only surrounded by steam, therefore when using the actual steam canner you have to allow a steady stream of steam to vent until certain parameters are met. While at her site, I decided to read some of the comments and I came across this one that make me wonder if Pam is right about this "home brew" steam canner.    

 

 

 

Screen grab:

 

 

Copy & Paste

Quote

@kimberlywilliams3009

1 year ago

I will add my two cents. You are far better off using a pot with a lit that fits properly such that steam only escapes through the vent and not around the edges (once turned down from high to the lowest point where steam is still produced). This is the reason Pam's first Harvest Canner's temperature indicator appeared to not work properly. The indicator was fine but didn't reach the right spot because either the lid or the pot was somehow out of round and the steam was all escaping from under/around the lid. For that reason, when I saw the video where she talked about all of the steam escaping I knew her situation was not as some who are at altitude extremes and fall outside the norms for the indicator, but that she had a problem with either the lid or pot having been dented out of round in storage or shipping. That is why I sent her a replacement canner. Steam canning with a lid that doesn't fit properly and allows steam to escape under/around is a far from ideal situation as that same gap allowing the steam to escape is also allowing air lower than steam temperature into the pot. This shouldn't cause major temperature fluctuations, but you will not know unless you have two vent holes in the lid (one to let steam escape and one to put your instant-read thermometer in. This is why a pot with a properly fitting glass lid with two steam vents is ideal. (FYI, the extension office system has put out a memo as to why a regular pot should not be used for steam canning. As we were producing steam canners long before they finally tested and released their findings, we know they don't have the bandwidth and their team is dwindling, so....)

 

A little more about steam canning efficiency. Not only are you using less water and so the steam brings the temperature inside the canner up more quickly, but you are also turning down the heat on your stove to hold the steam steady. Turning your stove down from high uses less energy. With our canner, and most pots with properly fitting lids, when the stove temperature is on high, the force causes the lid to move around and that is why you have the spitting, etc. under/around the lid and that is also why my instructions tell you when that happens you're almost ready to start timing so turn the temperature down. If you don't take that step of finding the sweet spot of the lowest setting on your stove that still produces a steady stream of steam, you may run out of water sooner than all of our (and the USDA's) testing making your longer recipes (such as some tomato recipes) unsafe when the water runs out.

 

Also, you can purchase the rack that comes with the Harvest Canner by itself. Search on Amazon for VKP1056.

 

 

The following exchange is part of a discussion in the reply section of the comment above.

 

 

Edited May 20 by Midnightmom

[Mother]

This is interesting info, both pros and cons.  I have a vintage Conservo steam cooker/canner oven that I used in the past for steam canning fruits, jams, and other high acid foods. I have also used it to steam old fashioned breads and puddings and whole meals.  I’ve included a picture from eBay simply because I cannot get to mine to show it.  I have not used it in years but had been considering having DGS bring it out of storage as it’s much easier to use than the water bath canner would be. 
 

what I have been learning here is that you don’t want the steam to escape which would also be letting air in and this Conservo definitely will steam around the doors if the temperature is not regulated.  The door actually fits fairly tight for an antique but it is old. The bottom is copper and a funnel on top (on a tube to the bottom) allows you to put boiling water in if the level gets low. I understand there was a whistle with it to tell you the water was getting low but mine is missing.  There are four shelves inside to hold jars or food. There are no real instructions on how to use it other than the manual tells about each food item and its steam time, usually between two and three hours, even for canning meats and low acid veggies.  I’ve never felt comfortable canning those in it but have done many meals of meat, veggie, and deserts. The moist heat makes for a different taste and texture of foods. 
 

Anyone had experience with this antique?

 

 

[Jeepers]

The steam canners I saw a couple of years ago only held about 4 quarts and didn't have the gauge on top. Sort of like R.R. was talking about. They steamed, you timed.

 

I'm not sure about all of that starting out with different water temperatures for raw pack vs hot food. You can't change the temperature of boiling water. That's why we pressure can. So we can adjust the amount of pressure.  No matter how long you time the food in a water bath or steam canner, it will still only reach 212 degrees. I'd just notice when the water start to boil and steam is built up and then start timing. But that's just me. I don't steam can. She also said something about "bringing it up to pressure." There is no pressure in the steam canner.

 

I wasn't sure about all of that sputtering she said was normal either. I suppose if you have a gas stove, it could potentially extinguish the flame. That happened with a water bath canner I was using once. Too much water boiling over the pot. 

 

I'm not so sure it's worth the effort. Definitely lighter weight And uses less water! But for me, I would do salsa or small jars like half pints and you could only do about 7 wide mouth jars at a time. I have a big and a small water bath canner so I can stack in those. BTW they do make smaller graniteware canners with the wire baskets. Love mine. Hate those basket racks though. My jars always tip in those. 

 

In my opinion, the verdict is still out for me. Not because of the method but because I'd probably mess it up. One reason I like to water bath with a glass lid is so I can actually see when the water is boiling. I'd rather just go ahead and submerge them in boiling water and time it from when the water starts to boil. I water bath fruits and pickles sometimes but even then I acid test them. I'm probably overly cautious. I often pressure can my spaghetti sauce.

 

 

Of course Leisa is touting that steam canner. They probably sent it to her from free and are sponsoring her. BTW Forjar lids are still made in China as of last week. A woman on a non-canning site called them. I THINK Superb lids are the only ones made in the USA. 

 

I just thought. I think I have an electric water bath canner. I saw it on Heather's site a long time ago. The advantage is you can use it on your counter top and it has a drain hose where you can empty it in your sink from the hose. I think I bought it. I meant to. It's hard to tell what all I have in that garage in Indiana. But that would be very handy as far as weight is concerned. 

 

I also heard that the USDA is no longer going to test any new canner going on the market. 

[Jeepers]

Mother, that is a very interesting steamer. I noticed the handles. Is it submerged down into water or do you add boiling water to it? 

 

[Mother]

You just put water in the copper bottom inside it.  Put it on a burner or wood stove and start it boiling.  Mine, like the one in the picture, does not have a vent…..I don’t think anyway. Mine is one of the earlier models.   The one shown in a you tube video does have one that pops up in the center top to build up steam pressure.  I will have to recheck mine as that would at least clue in that there is enough steam. I loved using mine on the wood burning stove but I’ve also used it on a camp stove and on a grill.  It at least would not be a problem with pressure regulation/fluctuation  like you could get with a pressure canner on either. 
 

I like the idea of an electric water bath canner.  Would still have to put in and remove individual jars but wouldn’t need to move the whole thing around, high neither I nor DH can do now. 

[Jeepers]

I can't handle a heavy water bath canner either. I have to fill it with a pitcher and let it cool down to room temperature and empty with a pitcher. Or sauce pan. I do like the smaller canners though. Last time I water bathed (sauerkraut) I used the inserts from my pressure canner to set the jars on and to stack them. That worked well. I don't like those wire basket things. My jars never stayed upright in those. 

[Midnightmom]

31 minutes ago, Jeepers said:

I'm not sure about all of that starting out with different water temperatures for raw pack vs hot food. You can't change the temperature of boiling water. That's why we pressure can. So we can adjust the amount of pressure.  No matter how long you time the food in a water bath or steam canner, it will still only reach 212 degrees. I'd just notice when the water start to boil and steam is built up and then start timing. But that's just me. I don't steam can. She also said something about "bringing it up to pressure." There is no pressure in the steam canner.

 

The second comment fromthe reply section of the comment I posted above kind of explains that. The "gauge" isn't really a gauge that measures anything, it's just an in indicator that the temp inside the pot has reached its max because all of the air has been vented out of the canner. Along that line, lots of people say that they use their PC with the jars elevated and the lid on and closed but without the jiggler. When the "lock" rises that means that the air has been vacated and they start timing from there. That method seems to be the closest to how the "new" steam canners operate. 

[Midnightmom]

7 minutes ago, Jeepers said:

I don't like those wire basket things. My jars never stayed upright in those. 

I had that same issue. Also, making a "rack" out of tying canning rings together presents the same problem. The jars sit on top of the ring openings but they do not "nest" so they tilt and bounce when the water starts to boil. The suggestion of using a tea towel between the jars and the bottom of the pot must have been made by someone who had never tried it for themselves! A towel does not allow water to pass through it so the whole towel tries to lift off of the bottom of the pot due to the bubbling of the water and that knocks the jars around more than either of the previous methods discussed. That was a disaster! 

[Jeepers]

I like using a flat surface like the rack thing that comes in the pressure canner. They stay stable sitting on that. And another one on top of the jars for stacking. 

[Littlesister]

I have a water bath canner with the rack that holds each jar. I also have 2 pressure canners with a rack for each one. I turn a rack upside down and then that another rack and set it on top the right way to put the jars in, so they don't bounce around. It has worked for me. But I don't do much steam canning anymore. Last time I made salsa I just water bath canned it, and it turned out fine. 

[Jeepers]

I need a quick refresher course please.

 

I'm going to can pints of taco meat. I haven't done it before. Do I add water/broth to the jar or just can the seasoned meat alone. My time is running out to can and I have a bazillion and one things to do today and I'm pinched for time or I'd look it up. Thank you. 🥰

[euphrasyne]

I always use broth or water when canning meat.  It tastes better that way to us.  

[Littlesister]

I always use broth. 

[Jeepers]

Thank you ladies.  

 

I had to take the hamburger out of the fridge because it wasn't thawing. I'll try to can it tonight. I'm running out of time. 

 

I ended up with 25 half pints of chicken chunks. Two didn't seal. I might do them again if it's the same time as the hamb. They look really nice. 

 

 

 

[Littlesister]

Looks good Jeepers, when you do the hamburger or whatever I would just fix the jar that didn't seal and put in with the next batch. That is what I do. 

 

I finished all the baby food that I am going to do for now. Though tomorrow I will be canning 3 Boston butts and use some of that for baby food. 

So far for the baby I did mixed veggies, potatoes, butter beans, broccoli, beef and chicken, green beans and I forgot the other one.  I do need to get carrots for both baby and me. But that will be another day.  The pork will be a long hard job just on its own. That's a lot of cutting up to do.  And I just remembered the other food for baby was peas. 

[snapshotmiki]

@Jeepers, I know  I'm too late but when I can raw meat--no water. Already  cooked  meat--add broth or water. 

 

I did 13 half pints of cheese  sauce and 7 pints of blackberry lemonade concentrate. 

[Midnightmom]

When you're canning HAMBURGER (ie- ground beef) you need to par-cook it so that it doesn't congeal into a solid mass inside of the jars as it cooks. There is no way to know whether the center of that mass of meat has been able to come to the required temp for the required time to be safely canned. Par-cooking it (doesn't have to be fully cooked) and adding broth allows the water to flow between all of the pieces of meat so that the center gets just as hot as the edges.

 

It's not necessary to do that with CHUNKS of raw meat though as they don't cook together into a solid hunk because the meat is giving up it's juices during cooking creating the enviornment which allows the heat to be evenly distributed throughout the jars.

BTW- the new recommended head space for raw chix is 1 1/4" because the "new" chicken meat is "juicier" than the older birds's meat. (Commercially raised, that is).

[Jeepers]

Miki, you aren't too late. Meat is still trying to thaw. Sigh. 

[Jeepers]

I am really happy with the chicken. After looking at the picture though, the chunks appear bigger than they actually are. I sautéed them until they were white on the outside and then canned them in chicken broth. It took a little longer but it really cut down on the white floaty stuff in the jar. I'm not a big meat eater. These small jars will be good as a side with some dipping sauce or chicken salad. 

[Midnightmom]

@Jeepers I hope you saw my post about canning raw HAMBURGER meat. It MUST be par-cooked. See post above for details.

Edited July 24 by Midnightmom

[Jeepers]

I did. I thought I responded. 🤓 I cook all of my meat before canning. It's an ick factor for me. I have a love/hate relationship with meat. 

 

I was mainly talking about seasoned taco meat. Seasoned and fried. I was thinking if I added broth then it would be too soupy for tacos?